Trading the Front Lines for Scaled Trust, Team Growth, and Foresight

Intro: Welcome to Honestly We’re Learning, a podcast from ClearEdge, the marketing agency that also helps marketers grow their careers.

Join Leslie Vickrey and Lesly Cardec as we explore the turning points that shape a person’s professional story, the highs, the stumbles, and everything in between. We’ll bring you candid conversations with leaders and rising talent, plus our own take on what’s changing in marketing and recruiting today. Because behind every success story is a few lessons learned the hard way. And honestly, we’re all still learning.

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Lesly Cardec:
All right, we have Marcia here today. We’re so excited to have her on. I know you’ve been waiting for it as well, Leslie.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yes, Marcia Hagood with Yoh. Excited to get to know her better through the podcast.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah, me too. Me too.

Leslie Vickrey:
We have a lot of parallels, so it’ll be good to see that come in personally, like a lot of good personal parallels. So I’m excited to share her story. Well, I have a question for you because you just sent me a picture of Jet and his learner’s permit. What’s going on? You have a driver.

Lesly Cardec:
I know. He got his learner’s permit and I took him driving and I was scared but excited. Like I was really excited to get him going. So we went to this empty parking lot on a Sunday and I made sure like there’s no people, no animals. There’s nothing that can be hurt except for the car.

So yeah, no, he did good. I mean, we did the basics, but I kept like I wish I had…my daughter was in the back seat because she’s such a character. She was in the back seat, just like in the backseat praying and just like

Leslie Vickrey:
Was she worse than you?

Lesly Cardec:
No, she…I was pretty calm and she was trying to be a jokester and just saying. ‘It was good to know you…’

No, but he did good. We just did like basic drive reverse. He drove around. He’s like, ‘Mom, I don’t know how much space when I make a turn, there’s a curb.’ I’m like, You’ll get used to it, but he did pretty good.

Leslie Vickrey:
Okay, wait. Didn’t he have a training before getting the permit?

Lesly Cardec:
No. I mean he had he had a course, so you take a course. I made him do that.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yes, yes. Like are you the teacher?

Lesly Cardec:
The actual physical…which is scary because I don’t think I’m the best driver. And I’m like, I don’t know. I mean, everything’s fine, but I tend to drive a little fast and my patience is very low, so I’m probably not the best. But I was pretty good. He he did good. But yeah, he took a you take an online course and then you take a test. And if you pass then you take an eye exam and and that’s it.

Leslie Vickrey:
That’s it? You don’t…wow, times have changed. So you don’t get in… Oh my gosh, Murphy…You don’t get in your car with an instructor and other students and learn anymore.

Am I dating myself?

Lesly Cardec:
When you get your actual…so now it’s a learner’s permit for a year. When he gets his actual license, like the real thing, he will have somebody else, an unbiased person, testing him. By the way, the permit is hard. I will be very honest. I think I failed it three times….

Leslie Vickrey:
Did you really…?

Lesly:
Yes.

Leslie Vickrey:
Lesly, this is all new. I’m learning so much about you right now.

Lesly Cardec:
You’re learning so much. So I’m like, Jet, if I could fail it three times, you’re gonna be you’re gonna be fine. You got this.

Leslie Vickrey:
Okay, next time we rent a car together, I will do the driving. Well, congratulations, Jet. Super excited for you. Brooklyn, you should be praying when it’s your mom driving and then we’ll be moving on to Marcia.

Lesly Cardec:
Let’s jump in.

Leslie Vickrey:
Okay, let’s do it.

Leslie Vickrey:
Today, we’re excited to welcome Marcia Hagood, Senior Vice President of Yo Enterprise Solutions, where she leads Yo’s recruitment process outsourcing, managed services, and employer of record businesses. Marcia has spent more than 25 years with Day & Zimmerman and Yoh, giving her a front row seat to some pretty significant shifts in the world of work, from the early days of managed services to today’s increasingly complex AI-enabled talent landscape.

Marcia is responsible for the growth, performance, and strategic direction of Yoh Enterprise Solutions, partnering with organizations to solve some of their toughest workforce challenges and build talent strategies that can evolve as quickly as their businesses do. But what really stands out about Marcia, and this is what we want to get into today, is how she thinks about leadership.

She believes the future isn’t about choosing between technology and people. It’s about using technology intelligently while keeping human connection, ethics, and purpose at the very core center. And she’s equally passionate about developing the leaders who come next and creating teams where people can do meaningful work and thrive. That combination of deep operational experience, a clear view of where workforce strategy is heading, and a genuine investment in people gives us a lot to talk about today. So Marcia, welcome to Honestly, We’re Learning.

Marica Hagood:
Thank you! I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to come after that. That was great. I appreciate that.

Leslie Vickrey:
It’s all about you, so…

Marcia Hagood:
It’s like, whoa, twenty…twenty something years. It has been. It has been a while. So I’ve seen a lot of things. But thank you so much to both of you for having me today on the podcast. I’m excited.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah, we’re excited to jump in. Before we get into all the things we’re gonna unpack, I wanna start off with something that has nothing to do with RPO contracts or MFP programs. Let’s start with a hidden gem, a place, a snack, a ritual, whatever it may be that makes you feel like the very best version of yourself. What would that be?

Marcia Hagood:
I think for me, being able to disconnect through a book. Because what it does for me is it gives me an opportunity, depending on what I want to read or where I wanna go, it gives me an opportunity to either escape completely, which sometimes I think we need to recharge. You know, not everyone can jump on a plane and go take a trip or go see a place, but for me being able to, you know, engage in a book for a couple of hours to just kind of separate myself from what’s going on in the world is really nice.

And, you know, it depends on what I’m in the mood for. Like sometimes I want to lean into a book to just provide me with some guidance or some things that I can think about differently. I’m always curious, so that’s important. And sometimes I don’t want any of that. I just wanna be able to have something simple that I can read that just takes me out of the space that I’m in at that time. And once I put it down, I probably can’t even tell you a sentence in it. I can remember what the plot was, but for that moment in time it was engaging and then I’m done and I’m on to the next. So yeah, that’s for me. Yeah.

Lesly Cardec:
I love that. Is there one that you would I mean, I know that there’s different genres and probably focus. Anything you would recommend that you can’t put down right now?

Marcia Hagood:
So I just…so I’ll go two ways. So I’ll go the personal way. So I just finished the Calamity Club. It’s a big one that’s out there right now. It’s from I think it’s Kathryn Stockett. I think that’s her first name, but she did The Help. And it was six hundred pages. So I was a little concerned about whether or not I was gonna be able to commit to it, but it was very engaging. And again, picked up quite a few nuggets from that, just about friendships and family and relationships and stuff. So that one was good.

But I feel like I consistently go back and I keep it in my on my bookshelf, because I go from hard books to Kindles and I keep it on my bookshelf, is Bob Iger’s Ride of a Lifetime. So former Disney CEO. And what I really loved about his book is the simplicity in his writing really afforded me the opportunity throughout the book to pick up some really good nuggets. And it really aligned with how I look at leadership, how I handle difficult conversations when things are challenging for me. And it was just nice to see his journey and how he started out. I mean, I’ve been with my job and my role for over 25 years and to see that he came up in the business and it where he was and it was just through hard work and determination.

But I do feel like there were key moments in his career, like his negotiations with Bob Lucas and Steve Jobs, where he really had to lean into who he was as an individual to be able to get the deal done. And I see that a lot in my leadership style. So I really, I always go back and to that book because I just really enjoyed it. And I I read it probably about five…five years ago. I don’t know how long it’s been out, but I read it back then and I’ll pull it back out and read a chapter every now and then. So…

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah. Definitely the sign of a good…of a good book. I was gonna ask you, fiction or nonfiction, and you answered it beautifully for us. Thank you. And I am trying to get back into reading and finding the time to do it. I love doing it when I have it, but I love what you said because I have one of each. And I have to ask myself, what mindset am I in in this moment? Do I need to escape and just be? Or am I trying to learn and take something from this? So I think that’s a great lesson.

Well, Marcia, you lead three distinct businesses that really sit at the center of how companies build, manage, and engage their workforce. So I’m curious, and this is a question, you know, over time we’ll ask, can your kids describe what you do? If you were at a cocktail party, how would you describe what you do?

But when people ask what you do, what do you wish you could tell them or hope they walk away understanding about the works?

Marcia Hagood:
Because I think that for me the the key thing is is when I try to explain to people what I do, they always go back, so you do staffing? So you do staffing? And I’m like, yes, but I do more than that. And where I go to is that every business strategy has people centered around it, right? You can’t you a lot of it, you can’t get it done.

Even though you’re trying to put in technology or you’re you’re looking at innovation, all of that comes down to do you have the right people involved to be able to drive that strategy? Do you have the right individuals, the technical skills to be able to come in and implement that technology? And that’s when I come in.

So I come in and ensure holistically that you’ve got that right talent in front of you and engaged so you can move your business forward. But then also we come in and we help you outline those processes to be able to have what you need as far as going out and looking for that talent. So supporting you on your hiring practices, supporting you on workforce planning, giving you that visibility so you can make those right decisions. So you know, sometimes I try to keep it simple as much as possible.

If you ask my husband right now, he’d be like, “I don’t know, I don’t, I don’t know if I know fully.” So I think I’ve gotten a lot of experience and depending on the person that I’m speaking with and whether or not they’re in corporate America, whether or not they understand, you know, I will take a story and try to relate it to what I do and have it make sure that they understand from their business perspective or from where they sit as far as whether it’s a stay at home mom or whether it’s somebody that’s a blue collar worker or whether it’s somebody in corporate America.

So those conversations go differently depending on the person that I’m talking to. But overall it’s the strategy and making sure you got the people.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yep, that makes a lot of sense.

Lesly Cardec:
That’s really clear way of saying it. I have a funny add-on to that. When I used to work at Spherion and Randstad, my grandparents read the paper, I don’t know if anyone reads the newspaper anymore, but they used to cut out every article that featured the name of my company, thinking I wrote that. And they used to mail it to me. So I used to get all these clippings. And I never corrected them because that made me look really cool, right? I wrote all of articles, all the time, that’s what I did.

Marcia Hagood:
Little side note, my second job, and this is my third job. So my second job, I found the job in newspaper clipping. So in the newspaper. There you go. So yes.

Lesly Cardec:
Aww, that’s so funny. See, we’re alike in that way. I just but yours was real. Mine was not real. Yours was real.

Leslie Vickrey:
But it was real cute that your grandparents did that, Lesly.

Lesly Cardec:
I know. I know. Every time I open the mailbox, I’m like, there’s my article. Okay, Marcia, on the show we care a lot of what we call the messy middle. the moments that stretch you long before they make any sense. So I wanted to ask if there’s been a recent challenge or just one in, one in your past that has pushed you out of your comfort zone and what lesson is really helping you learn what is that lesson helping you learn right now or has has helped you learn in the past?

Marcia Hagood:
I feel like for me it’s being able to scale as a leader. And what I mean by that is my responsibilities have grown significantly over the past two years as far as what I’m responsible for. You know, you mentioned MSP, EOR, RPO, but I also have a recruitment function under me and the sales organization. So you know, it’s…I’m one person as a leader, right? And I grew up in this industry and I’ve touched a lot of things, you know, during my tenure and time in the industry. And sometimes I can catch myself wanting to out of, not out of necessity, but out of just wanting to stay connected, wanting to put myself in the weeds a little bit more than what I need to.

And I think that as the job has gotten bigger, I have to make sure that I understand that I have to keep evolving as a leader. And in doing so, I have to trust the individuals that I put into those positions to be able to lead those functions. So, and it’s not that I don’t, they’re very capable of it, but I’m a let’s get in there and let’s fix it together and let’s do all this together.

And I’ve realized that it’s okay to step back and let leaders lead and they’re there for a reason, right? They’re in their roles because they’re the right people for the roles and you have to trust that they understand your culture, they understand your expectations, they know how you want them to show up and support clients and represent your organization, and you have to let them go out and do that. And depending on the individual, you’ve got to go in and provide them with the level of support to meet them where they are.

And to help them to continue to develop. So I think that’s that’s one of the key things that I’ve that I’ve, you know, had to kind of understand.

Leslie Vickrey:
There’s something very satisfying, Marcia, about going into the weeds sometimes, of like, I’ve still got it. I can still do this. I can still problem solve that or fix that. And I think Lesly is laughing because she sees me do it so often, but it’s also something that is so rewarding when you see your team step up and take on more when you kind of open that door and give them that opportunity.

And it feels great, even more satisfying than when you’re, you know, jumping in and and doing it yourself. And one of the things I realized in doing what you’re talking about is I didn’t realize that it actually created more retention because people on the team will start thinking, maybe there isn’t an opportunity for me to rise up or to take on more because they’re always going to be doing it.

I realized that when I had Grayson and went on maternity leave. This is going back 10 years ago, but my team had said, you know, finally it was like the time you had to let go because you were forced to. And it it encouraged me to see that, but it also showed them retention and opportunity to not want to leave because they could actually grow here, which that was, you know, eye-opening for me.

Marcia Hagood:
Yeah, definitely. And I think that for me, it’s, you know, going back to the people, is that I want my my leaders and even the the individuals below my leaders to feel like they have some autonomy when it comes to their jobs and how they should be functioning within the organization. And I think that sometimes that can be stifled if they are always feeling like they have to come to you for things. Like they need to have an opportunity to succeed. But they especially needed to have an opportunity to sometimes fail and and be able to learn from that. So I always have to to think about that I you know, we’re gonna fail. We fail fast, there’s lessons learned, let’s make sure that we learn from those.

And if we’re transparent and honest about those failures, then there’s opportunity for growth.

Lesly Cardec:
On the flip side, I do appreciate that, you know, that you’re also close to the front lines. So from a team perspective, it’s working for someone who who gets it, who understands the pain and the challenges that they you know that inevitably show up every single day. So I think I think that’s important for them to see too.

Leslie Vickrey:
You’re connected, connected to what they’re doing. Yeah, you’re right. It’s a really good point. I like that. Thank you.

Well, you have a pretty unique vantage point on where workforce strategy is heading, really, because you’re leading across multiple solutions, client needs, and emerging technologies. So I have to imagine that perspective actually helps present. And you said this earlier that you really like to be curious. So it presents a lot of questions. So I’m curious, what is a question you’re wrestling with in your work these days?

Marcia Hagood:
Just one?

Leslie Vickrey:
You’re welcome to share as many as you’d like.

Marcia Hagood:
We could be here all day.

Leslie Vickrey:
I know. I’ve got so many too. I’m like, okay, where’s my list? Yeah.

Marcia Hagood:
I think for me personally as a leader is that I want to keep growing. So how do I keep growing without, you know, losing myself in the process? Because I think that, you know, growth is very important no matter where what stage you are in your career.

Curiosity and growth is so important because curiosity can allows you to continue to learn more, share what you’ve learned, grow, innovate, those types of things. And then, you know, for me, I think the big thing is that there’s always something new to learn, right? We started out this conversation about books and how I go from nonfiction to fiction. And I may not, you know, remember the actual sentence, but I remember the idea and the thought. And that’s important to me because I never want to feel stale, Right? I never want to feel like I don’t have an opportunity to learn more, to be engaged, to make sure that I’m bringing ideas to the table. You know, those are all things that are important to me. So how do I keep growing as an individual so I can keep pouring that into my organization and my leadership?

Lesly Cardec:
I love that. Definitely growth mindset. and then, and the curiosity. That’s the theme that that keeps coming up in conversation of just always being curious, asking questions. And the growth doesn’t stop, even though, you know, no matter what level you’re at. I love hearing that. Thank you for sharing. I wanna talk a little bit about behind the scenes. I think this is such an interesting topic to pivot to because you are, you know, responsible for a lot. You know, owning growth and performance for so many different business lines is a lot to carry. I was gonna ask you how many hours on average you sleep, but that’s not one of my questions.

Marcia Hagood:
Seven. I have to get seven. I can’t function. I mean, I know that’s not one of your questions, but if I go to bed, I get sleep. Yes, it’s important to me. So I can share with you how I do that later. And it’s usually, I usually am four days, is I can commit to four days of seven hours and then something always comes up.

But yeah, I’m a seven hour sleeper. It’s important to me. Sleep soes so much for the mind. And it’s good for your health.

Leslie Vickrey:
Physical body and your mind. It’s…

Marcia Hagood:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But I didn’t mean to interrupt you, Lesly. Go ahead.

Leslie Vickrey:
I’m glad you answered it because some people are like, I don’t need any sleep and some it’s nine, ten hours. And like, I don’t know how you pull that off. And I think seven, you know, seven to eight is the right amount.

I tend to hit I think I was at six last night. I need to get, you know, some nights it’s six, some it’s eight. You just you do the best you can, but you know in your mind it’s good for your health and your body, your mental and physical health.

Lesly Cardec:
Which is like part of the architecture behind the scenes, like the routines, the support systems or the people in your life that allow you to show up fully and do the great work that you do. So what does that look like outside of the seven hours of sleep, which is great? So you get an A plus on that, but what does the rest of that look like for you?

Marcia Hagood:
It depends on the day, right? I will say that I am very fortunate and blessed that I have a partner, my husband, of sixteen years who is extremely supportive. I don’t I feel like we don’t just have a partnership. We have an alliance. So we know what we need to do to, you know, work together to keep our home functioning and working and when I need to pick up the slack, I do. And when he needs to pick up the slack, he does. And I think that not many people are fortunate in that arena, but I am. So I think that that is really important.

I have a nice core group of friends who know me and know me well. All of the friendships are over twenty years so they know how it functions. So they know if I disappear for a week or so, they know that there’s a reason and we can pick up the phone and it’s like we just spoke yesterday. but they also know that when, you know, I when they need me, I’m there and vice versa, you know.

And then my family. My family’s great and very supportive. and I think that’s important. My father is one of my biggest cheerleaders, so that’s really nice. Unfortunately, my mother is no longer here, but she would have definitely trumped my father if she was still here. So all those things are important.

And then, you know, I’ve got an eight-year-old who keeps me focused and keeps me really grounded, I will say, because there’s nothing like you know, reliving school at a certain age, reliving new math, reliving all those things. So there’s a level of patience that I have to really continue to strive for to find that balance when I need it. And it’s not always balance, right?

There’s a give and take. So there’s gonna be times where, you know, I can’t make it to certain events. And he knows that from the very beginning, he’s I think he’s understood until he now understands that mommy’s doing something that she loves. And because of that, I’m not gonna always be there, but when I am there, I’m very present.

So I feel like I’ve got a nice little balance going on right now. It’s not always like that, but there’s chaos, trust me, at times. But overall, holistically, I think I’m very blessed in in in where my setup is today and how that affords me the opportunity to show up at work and and be the best that I can be at work.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. I love that. I love that for so many reasons. We talk a lot about maintaining friendships that, with work and a supportive partner, all those things are so key and I can relate to the math. I don’t know what happened since I was in school, but my support level ended in third grade. I was like, I’m sorry. We are done.

Marcia Hagood:
That’s where I am. Third grade. That’s when you officially outsource, Lesly. That’s what we call it. That outsource function will be here at four o’clock. I just know my limitations. I know my limitations.

Leslie Vickrey:
Well, and I know like the relationship I wanna have with Grayson and, Marcia, I remember us talking about a year ago that we were on similar paths just with, you know, the number of years married, our kids and you know just of having them. And my best place for him is not being any form of an instructor. We even had to hire someone to teach him how to ride a bike.

He takes feedback and learning and lessons better from others. And I want to keep that sanity myself. So there’s something something to be said for that.

Marcia Hagood:
Same here, same here. It’s amazing how uncles and aunts can get him to do some things that mommy and daddy can’t and I’m okay with that. I can’t do it all.

Leslie Vickrey:
I am totally okay with it. Yeah. That’s fantastic. Well, you have, Marcia, a front row seat to how workforce solutions have evolved over the past two decades. And you’ve seen which ideas, assumptions, and conversations have changed along the way. Thinking about really our industry right now, if you could shift one conversation or narrative happening, what would it be?

Marcia Hagood:
I think I have a couple, but I will say I’m not gonna jump on the AI topic today because I think people talk about that so much. But I think that it is that we need to shift the conversation from responding to change, so being responsive, to being proactive with it and preparing for it.

I mean, we know that technologies are being built every single day, things that can come into play that are supposed to make your life a lot easier and make processes more efficient, but I think that when we are reactive, we find ourselves in situations that we’re always chasing things and we’re trying to figure out what’s gonna work best for us. And I think sometimes we need to sit back and think about where do I, in my case, where do I want my organization to be a year from now? And what do I need to be able to support that? Or what do I want where do I want my organization to be two years from now? And what are the things that I need to be able to support that?

And I think those are the things that really resonate with me and really are important is that yes, we’re gonna have to jump on some things and be reactive, but for the larger things that could really move the needle in my organization, you know, we need to be building that foundation now so that we are prepared for it and we can support it.

And I think that’s one of the key things that we are missing that I really try to push within my organization and my leaders is that, let’s stop being so reactive and let’s start thinking beyond that and let’s be proactive, not only for us internally, but also for our customers.

You know, we’ve got the ear to the ground. We hear what’s going on, we hear from the hiring managers, we know what they are, you know, thinking about and where they’re trying to drive their business. How can we take those opportunities where we’ve been engaged in those conversations and think about how we can provide more value to the client?

And it doesn’t always have to be from a technology perspective. So I think those are those are some of the things that I feel like we are, you know, need to shift the conversation on so we can be seen as you know, continue to be seen as valued partners for our clients.

Lesly Cardec:
I think by doing that too, you’re not constantly well, a lot of people have the shiny object syndrome, right? You’re chasing the latest and greatest. And I know that typically leans more towards technology. So that was a good point of it doesn’t always have to be technology. Yeah, that’s a great point. Well, believe it or not, we are at the end of our time together. Marcia, where can people follow you or just learn more about you? What’s the best place?

Marcia Hagood:
So I’m I’m on LinkedIn. That’s where I am. And you know, I tend to do a lot of looking on LinkedIn and more now I’m trying to really engage more about some of the things that I think about. I know recently I posted something about partnerships and client partnerships and should we call them partnerships and ask for other names for people to be able to to give to us.

So when I’m on LinkedIn, it’s more of a, you know, as I’m going through it shared experiences, just trying to understand from other leaders like how do they view things. So, but yes, I’m active on LinkedIn and I think that’s a great way to be able to reach out to me. Obviously, you know, my email address, which is my first name dot my last name at yoh.com. So there’s opportunity there as well.

But yeah, LinkedIn is really where you can engage me directly and send me a message. And I love to network. So, welcome an opportunity to have more of these types of conversations and understand from prospective clients what their business needs are.

Leslie Vickrey:
Thank you. This flew by and I can attest to anyone listening if they reach out, Marcia is fantastic at setting up time and really just being there for people. And I think that’s a true testament to who you are as a leader. So as we wrap up, what really stands out to me, and when you think about just all of, we were talking about the industry and how it’s hard to explain, there’s a lot of acronyms and different things that people say in and out, but at the end of the day, our industry, it’s people, it’s clients trying to solve real problems, teams doing the work to get them there.

And Marcia, your growth mindset, both personally and professionally, really stands out so much. You’ve reminded us what great workforce solutions are built on and and that partnership, developing that next generation of leaders. It’s you know, it’s part of the job, not a side project. And you kind of continuing to grow as a leader to let them do the same thing, thank you. Just thank you so much for sharing not just what you’re building, of course, at Yoh Enterprise Solutions, but how you lead along the way. Thank you so much for being here with us.

Marcia Hagood:
Thank you. The privilege is all mine. I truly appreciate your time today. This was wonderful. We should do this again!

Leslie Vickrey:
Okay, well that was a fantastic episode.

Lesly Cardec:
It was so good. It was so good. I mean, she has so much experience.

Leslie Vickrey:
I know. She’s really fantastic.

Lesly Cardec:
So much learn from her.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah. I know.

Lesly Cardec:
So now we’re gonna do our our take three. Some of them kind of blend together, but I think I’ll go first. I think the first thing that we talk about a lot is the notion of being in working in the business and on the business. And I don’t know what the magical answer is. I know we struggle with it all the time because, you know, as much as you try to stay and work on strategy and vision and planning, the reality is, there’s things that happen day to day that require your attention.

So it’s a constantly context switching and pulling in and out of things. And it’s hard. It’s hard to do. And I think, you know, for Marcia, one of the things she mentioned, which I appreciated, was how that, you know, there’s a lot of satisfaction in in being in the weeds and working in the business.

And I know that we both feel that too. And it’s not a bad thing. I think one of the things I pointed out was from a team perspective, I like the fact that sometimes you see leaders being in the weeds because it’s an appreciation for the work that you do and the struggles and the challenges that you face. And if you never have that experience, it’s very easy to have thoughts about something or make quick decisions on things and you’re not really understanding all the implications that come with those decisions. So on the flip side, it’s like, yes, once you get to a certain level of leadership, you do need to let go. And I know that she was really clear on that being a great thing and letting her people or very capable people do their thing.

But yeah, it’s also a nice thing that you also are able to roll up your sleeves. It’s that balance.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah. It’s hard to strike the right the right balance and it’s constantly a work in progress. But I loved, and this’ll lead into the second piece, I think you’re right, seeing a leader on the front lines. There’s a few leaders who I know of who still go to local markets and branches and they’ll get on the phone, they’ll get in the pit, they’ll do recruiting, sales, all the things to show that they’re on that front lines.

I think that speaks a lot to the leader and to the team to show that you care enough to keep learning and knowing because it’s probably changed too from the time you know we were maybe in the front line to what they’re facing today. Those new tools, technologies, requests from clients. So it’s good to stay on top of that.

And one of the things that I loved, so we’ll go to the second take two here of the take two of take threes, is her growth mindset, always learning and growing.

So she could talk about the books she’s reading, you know, both fiction and nonfiction, and when she’s in the right mindset for both of those. And really that growth mindset and always something new to learn, she said, and to remember the idea and the thought and never wanting to be stale and always have the opportunity to learn more and engage. And I think of that really setting the tone for her as a leader, but also when other people, you know, we learn from watching leaders and what they do. It really sets a tone for her team to know that being curious and having that growth mindset and always learning is really, really key.

So I’d have to imagine when she interviews people, looks at, you know, promoting people and just looking at the culture in general, you know, we learn again by watching those leaders and that growth mindset is so important to her. I loved, I loved that about her.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. It was great. And I think she also said, fail fast. Like failing is okay. Failure is okay, which I know we’ve heard a few times, but it’s always nice to be reminded of that. It’s not a bad thing to fail. So, I love that.

The other component I think was really I loved when we talked about her support system. It seems like she has such a strong one. She called, she referred to her marriage as a strong alliance, which I love and can appreciate. Her friendships she’s had over twenty years. It’s hard to have friendships for that long. I mean, let’s be honest. I know we’ve had conversations about that. It’s hard. And to be understanding of, you know, she said, when you disappear, right? And when you come back, you kind of pick up where you left off. But not everyone is understanding about that. So I think that was really good to hear.

The other thing that struck a chord with me was her eight year old son and just the understanding that, you know, mommy may not be at everything, but when she is, she is fully present. And having that conversation and understanding because she loves what she what she does. I love that because, you know, mommy guilt is something that is real. And for busy executives, whether it be traveling or meetings or whatever is occupying your time, it’s it’s hard to be there for everything. And you can’t always make your schedule work.

And so I think having that open and honest conversation, everyone’s on the same page, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t, you know, love you and she’s, you know, not gonna spend time with you. When she is there a hundred percent, I think that’s even more meaningful is the quality over the quantity. So I appreciated her saying that and just understanding the dynamics of a very busy exec and how that works. How could she show up in a way that works?

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah, I loved that. And the piece of her son, I’m glad you brought that up because she, you know, talking about outsourcing key things, you know, as a family, we hear different tips and different things for family support, but she really sets the tone with her husband and the alliance that they have and with her son. And, you know, at times it makes sense. I think we were talking about math that, you know, you can’t be everything to everyone at all times.

You know, you have to be willing to ask for help as a leader and be okay with that. And even when it comes to outsourcing some things with your, you know, with your kids and so forth to get the help that they need and to help, you know, open up the time for you to be able to do the the things you need to do too.

This was definitely one of those conversations that I’m so grateful for and it it just stays with you. I definitely gonna think through some of what she said today.

Lesly Cardec:
It was, it was great. So thank you, Marcia. And we can’t wait to hear everyone’s comments and reactions to the to the episode.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah, if something resonated with you, we hope you carry it into the next week and we’ll see you next time. Thanks, Lesly.

Lesly Cardec:
Alright, thanks, Les.

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