Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Self-Doubt in Leadership

Intro: Welcome to Honestly We’re Learning, a podcast from ClearEdge, the marketing agency that also helps marketers grow their careers.

Join Leslie Vickrey and Lesly Cardec as we explore the turning points that shape a person’s professional story, the highs, the stumbles, and everything in between. We’ll bring you candid conversations with leaders and rising talent, plus our own take on what’s changing in marketing and recruiting today. Because behind every success story is a few lessons learned the hard way. And honestly, we’re all still learning.

Leslie Vickrey: Hi, Lesly!

Lesly Cardec: Hi!

Leslie Vickrey: Welcome to our first official podcast recording of Honestly We’re Learning. I’m excited to be doing this with you.

Lesly Cardec: I know we’ve been talking about this for some time and…what do we want to talk about? Who would you want on this podcast? And all the things! There’s a lot of different components, but sometimes we just have to jump, right?

Leslie Vickrey: Right, exactly, which will lead into when we have our first guest a little bit about what they talk about as well. But before we get into that, it’s a new year. I’m curious about something with you. Tell me, I’m stressing out about something, so I want to know how you’re feeling about this. And it’s New Year’s resolutions or words. I keep reading all of these posts on LinkedIn or talking to friends and family and vision boards and all of the creativity and, being in marketing, I feel like these are things I should innately be doing, but they kind of stressed me out. So I want to know about your process. What do you do, if anything? Or are you joining me in the stressed out zone?

Lesly Cardec: Make sure you have a pen in your hand.

Leslie Vickrey: Hahaha!

Lesly Cardec: I have no process. There is no process. No, I struggle with this. I believe in it. I believe in flipping the page, starting a new chapter. There’s something magical about the start of anything new. So I love that. But I also feel like the magic is like inside of you and it’s not this magic number like January 1. So there’s a lot of things that I’d love to achieve this year and part of it will probably come to fruition. I know we’ve talked about this through accountability, accountability and having partners. I know for me, it’s important to have those people that you trust and will push you and yell at you sometimes and just, you know, hold yourself accountable. So not a process necessarily, but…

Leslie Vickrey: Right.

Lesly Cardec: I am all for new beginnings, that’s for sure, and hope. So that doesn’t answer your question, but do you have one? Do you have a process or a word or a color or…

Leslie Vickrey: I don’t, I don’t, and I keep thinking about it and I read somewhere where someone was talking about it doesn’t, we put all this pressure for it to be at the beginning of the year, but it doesn’t have to be at the beginning of the year. So just to kind of take that pressure off of yourself. But I did do something where I created more of a not doing list for myself and wanted to really take the time because we do take the time to plan obviously for the company and different things that we’re going to do. And I know you and I talk about this a lot when it comes to how we want to help ourselves. And for me, focusing on non-negotiables, and that’s where you and I can hold each other accountable. And we talk about this a lot, but we’re gonna put it out into the atmosphere here and we’ll report back to everyone how we’re doing. But definitely, I think for you and I both, we talk about just health, being healthy, taking time for ourselves and if it’s working out, properly fueling our bodies, getting enough sleep, whatever that is, we talk about it all the time. I’m going to challenge you, Lesly and myself, that we can do better this year in 2026. So how about that? That’s not a resolution, it’s not a word, but it’s a promise or I guess for me kind of a non-negotiable and you’re one of my best accountability partners. So thank you and hold me accountable to that and I’ll do the same for you.

Lesly Cardec: I will. No, I love that. Health is number one. Health is wealth, as they say. it’s the most important thing. So yeah. So you can drop your pens if you’re listening because that’s it.

Leslie Vickrey: Yeah, health is wealth, having an accountability partner, a not to do list. So don’t stress out about what you have to do. Focus more on what not to do and then what you need to do will come naturally and focusing on those, the things that matter most to you and are non-negotiables. Those are things you should not give up for anything else. So there we go. That’s our first set of banter here before we kick off our first guest.

Lesly Cardec: Yeah, I’m so excited.

Leslie Vickrey: Welcome everyone. Today’s guest is one of those rare humans who somehow manages to be brilliant, influential, purpose-driven, and genuinely kind. All at the same time. We are absolutely thrilled to welcome Joanie Bily.

Joanie is a powerhouse leader in the world of work and workforce innovation with more than three decades of experience shaping how people grow, learn and thrive in their careers. She currently serves as the CEO of Dress for Success Worldwide, a global nonprofit empowering women to achieve economic mobility and build lives of purpose and independence. Joanie, I’m not even sure if you’re aware of this, but I actually have the privilege of being named a Dress for Success Your Power honoree. Thank you to our dear friend, Joyce Russell, nominating me a few years back. And I have to say it was quite the experience and gave me an opportunity truly to witness firsthand the impact that you and Dress for Success are making. The connection between Dress for Success and staffing is so strong and something that I don’t think people really realize, which I know we’ll cover here today. But before that, Joanie was busy transforming some of the biggest names in staffing and talent, including Monster, Randstad, Adecco, and EmployBridge.

Joanie led major initiatives in brand communications, leadership, innovation, and so, so much more. She’s also the creative force behind programs like the Better Work Life Academy and Life Skills Studio, helping people build real skills for real careers. Joanie’s been recognized globally as one of the most influential women in staffing, served as the chair of the American Staffing Association Board, and is a trusted voice on workplace trends across major media, like Fox Business Network’s Mornings with Maria, ABC, CNBC, CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC.

Oh my goodness, Joanie. And as if that’s not enough, she’s also an author of two, three books coming up, but her own book, Dive in Deep, and a contributing author with myself actually to Rising with Courage and Together We Rise. Joanie is a runner, a devoted family person, and to us, a dear friend and a constant source of inspiration.

Leslie Vickrey: Joanie, welcome.

Joanie Bily: Thank you, Leslie, and thanks for that amazing introduction. It’s always hard sometimes to listen to. like, you know, want to duck down.

Leslie Vickrey: No way, duck way forward and in.

Joanie Bily: It’s great to be with you and Lesly today and so excited about this new podcast that you’re hosting.

Lesly Cardec: Thanks, Joanie. After that intro, I probably want to say the pressure is on, right? It’s definitely on. But seriously, I know I’ve had the chance to work alongside you for a long time. I know there’s so much more to you than what fits in that really impressive bio. So first, I’d love to dig into Dress for Success and your new role as CEO for a minute, because as Leslie mentioned, the mission of your organization is so aligned with that of the staffing and recruiting industry.

Lesly Cardec: For those that don’t know, what is Dress for Success and what is its mission?

Joanie Bily: Yeah, no thanks for asking. Dress for Success has been around for almost 30 years and really has an incredible story that it was started in New York City by a woman named Nancy Loveland who her grandmother had left her like $5,000 and she decided to create a Dress for Success with a church, started in a church basement, and it really was founded on providing women access to professional clothing and attire to help them with maybe it’s their first job interview or the first job or getting re-employed, getting back into the workforce. And so over 30 years it has now evolved to so much more. We have 130 locations in over 15 countries around the world and our mission really is to support women with not only the clothing, but really the career readiness, the coaching, access to skills and learning opportunities, really truly helping them build that confidence that we know is already inside of them, but trying to spark that for them. And it’s exciting because we’re thinking about really the next iteration of Dress for Success. Where do we take this in the future?

So many people think we’re still about just all the clothing, but there’s so much more. And we’re really helping women thrive in work and life. And that is our mission.

Leslie Vickrey: I love that so much, Joanie, and it makes a lot of sense. I love the thread that shows up again and again for you in your career when it comes to helping people and careers in their journey. And I really appreciate you sharing the background of Dress for Success. I feel like every time I hear something about it, I learn something new. And you’re right. It is about helping women be confident and also find that career for them. And I learned so much in the work that I did with them. And I really encourage people to do some research, look in their local markets, look nationally, see how they can give and contribute to the organization because it’s helping a lot of women in need get back on their feet, do really wonderful things with their lives and their careers and support their families. And I remember reading some statistics about the single moms and women coming from abusive situations and just interesting backgrounds of the people who are part of the program. So it’s a true opportunity. I don’t know, I’m kind of biased, Joanie, but I think you are the perfect, I know you are the perfect CEO to take them into that next, that next chapter. So building on what you said, I’d love to dig into our second book that we co-authored, Rising with Courage, because beyond your incredibly impressive career, and it was so fun to read a little bit about you and your background and your bio in your chapter, you’re really transparent about your journey with self-doubt and the story of when your daughter actually had approached you and her questioning if she was even good enough to be part of the engineering program in college. So tell us a little bit about your journey to building self-belief and how that really has helped shape your children too.

Joanie Bily: Yeah, thanks for asking that question, Leslie. First of all, I have to say I’m so excited about our next book, Rising with Courage, and my chapter is really focused on overcoming that self-doubt and having the courage to truly believe in yourself. And the reason why I picked that topic is, you know, I think some people might look at me or might even read my bio and they’re like, wow, you’ve got it together and I’ve had people say that to me. You look like you’ve got it all together and the truth is if I look back at it or even my life sometimes I feel like I’m holding it together with duct tape and rubber bands. It’s not that together. We all have challenges. We all deal with hardship and through those things sometimes we really doubt ourselves and there’s been many times throughout my career where I thought, you know, can I do this? Am I cut out for this next job or this opportunity? Should I have this seat at the table? You know sometimes we have to kind of self check ourselves and you talk about that Leslie in our last book Together We Rise with you know kind of having that like evil DJ in your head sometimes that gets in the way. Self-doubt is really kind of the same thing and our voices, our internal voices are so powerful. So I think over time, I’ve really tried to learn that I need to focus on like giving myself a pat on the back, right, for all I have accomplished. And I encourage other people to do that as well. But really finding ways to create that belief in my own self that yes, I absolutely deserve to have this seat at the table and do deserve to be in this job. And yes, I’m bringing a lot of value to the situation. And yes, my voice matters. And through time, I think I’ve really learned how to embrace that. But I’ve seen it in my children too.

And the story I share in the book is about my daughter who called me up and was questioning her selection of a major because she was sitting in a classroom with all men. I think there was three women in the whole cohort of about 100 engineering students that were in this program. And she was starting to doubt herself because she’s like, maybe I don’t fit in. Maybe I don’t look like everyone else that’s in this program. And you’ll have to read the book for those listening to kind of find out what happens.

It’s kind of a fun story that I think through the process she realized she was exactly where she needed to be and she absolutely deserved to be there.

Lesly Cardec: I love that you shared that because I think you’re right. I think we see those really impressive people and bios and you think, gosh, why am I experiencing these hardships and how come it doesn’t happen to other people, you assume, right? So I appreciate the transparency there. I think of it, it reminds me a lot about social media, only showing the highlights of life and not peeling back the layers and seeing how tough it was to really get there. So I appreciate that. And so I’d love to dig a little bit further into that because I think it’s important to realize that imposter syndrome is so real and fear of not being good enough is so real even when you’re, you know, well into your journey and something that we all have to continue working on. So, you know, being comfortable in our own skin. So I’d love for you to share one lesson you’re learning right now that feels uncomfortable, but really important.

Joanie Bily: Yeah, no, can think of one comes top of mind. mean, I can go back to and probably give you a hundred of them. Right now I’ve made the transition from kind of the corporate world where I had a great track record and now I am leading a global nonprofit. Nonprofit is very different. I think I’m bringing a lot of good skills with me and experience that can help really build this nonprofit and help evolve it to the next level. But the culture is different and running a nonprofit is different. You know, the financial statements are different. And so it’s been a learning process for me.

Number one, I didn’t really go out and seek that I was going to be a CEO of a nonprofit. And this incredible opportunity came up for me to step in as the interim. And then I fell in love with it and fell in love with the organization and the mission and most of all the opportunity of where it can go. But it’s still learning. It’s a whole new world for me. And so I make mistakes. I ask a lot of questions. I know I have a lot to learn. And so it’s not so much that I’m struggling with imposter syndrome, but I do check myself that, I need to rely on some experts and I have some learning to do in this new role because it is a new environment. I didn’t do this the last 30 years of my career.

Leslie Vickrey: That is true and going from corporate to nonprofit, it is very different, but I really applaud you for seeing the opportunity and pushing and challenging yourself. We talk about this a lot, but hearing it firsthand from someone like you, Joanie, is really inspiring. And what we talk about is making, you if you’re not feeling uncomfortable, maybe you’re not pushing yourself hard enough. So it’s a good reminder that we need to keep pushing ourselves.

And people often think, well, gosh, you’re at the CEO level. You know it all. And we don’t know it all. If we’re not learning, we’re not growing. And I know you and I are a lot alike in that regard where we want to constantly be learning and growing and pushing ourselves, even if it’s uncomfortable. We’re fortunate to have great friends and networks to lean on in those times and cheerleaders cheering you on. And I know you’ve got a wonderful, wonderful group doing just that. So I appreciate your honesty. Thank you. Thank you, Joanie, for that.

Joanie Bily: Absolutely. Thank you. And you know what the great thing I’ve realized, Leslie, now being a CEO, is that you really don’t have to have all the answers. You know, it’s so great to really try to pull the answers out of other people. And that is one of the things that I am loving most about this role and this opportunity.

Leslie Vickrey: Oh nice, and it gives other people an opportunity to grow too, push themselves when you’re challenging them to make some of those decisions and do those things. So it’s funny how much being a CEO or a leader, you can relate to different things in life. We talked about your children earlier and you know, we’re natural born like problem solvers, fixers, and we want to fix and help and do all of the things. So kind of pulling back on that can be really challenging for us. I know that, but it’s important whether at home or at work and the things we do for volunteering to do that. So for sure. Well, I have to ask you because you’ve been in the industry and when I say the industry even with Dress for Success helping people thrive in their careers and their journeys on the talent side. So everyone breaks out their crystal balls and tries to predict the future this time of year. So when you think about the future of this industry and I know for you you’re used to looking at the statistics and the data and talking on the news about all of these things. I’d love to hear from you directly and I know our listeners would too. What really excites you most and is there anything that actually is worrying you right now?

Joanie Bily: It is interesting when you think of, first of all, I’ll talk about the staffing industry and then maybe tie it a little bit to just the overall workforce and where I see that going if that’s okay. But from a staffing perspective, we know it has been a really challenging few years, right? The last three years, we’ve seen some substantial declines in temporary staffing, contract staffing, permanent placement, certain sectors have done a little bit better than others, but it’s been a challenge. And I think at the beginning of ‘25 and even at the beginning of ‘24 as an industry, we were all optimistic that, oh, things are gonna get better this year. Things are gonna get better this year. And we never really saw that uptick right in the penetration rate of temporary staffing. Now we look at 2026 and get out that crystal ball again. And I will say, I think there is a bit of more optimism in certain sectors. Hearing a lot, certainly in the IT sector, healthcare again continues to be really strong. There’s opportunities even in like hospitality. Seems like that sector is going to continue to do well.

What worries me is probably the light industrial or clerical sectors for the industry. And that’s really where I started. That’s where my roots are. My first true job out of college that got me into the recruiting and staffing industry started in clerical staffing. And what we see today is that many of those jobs either have already gone away or those positions are really at risk. And so I think there’s some concern that we’ll never see those jobs really come back. And I think many of them have gone away. But overall, I am extremely optimistic about workforce growth and opportunity. I think there will be new jobs. There’s going to be some new like multi-billion dollar companies that will exist that probably are just getting started today. What we’re seeing is just rapid innovation and transformation of business that’s going to lead to new opportunities. So overall, I’m very optimistic about job growth, but it’s going to be in sectors that will require very specific skills, education, training, the trades are going to do really well. Those jobs cannot be replaced by AI. So I do see a lot of opportunity on the horizon, certainly in the US, but the jobs are going to look very different than they looked in the past.

Lesly Cardec: I would echo that for sure. I think from our standpoint, we’re hearing and seeing the same thing. Lots of good opportunity. It’s just going to look very different. And I think our industry has adapted to so much change over the years that I think we’re ready to embrace that. So we’re going to put that out in the world. Lots of energy out there to say this is going to be a good year.

Joanie Bily: I like that.

Lesly Cardec: So let’s transition a little bit on the personal side. So, you know, in terms of what influences you most and how you lead. And so I’d be curious, when do you feel most like yourself?

Joanie Bily: That’s a great question. When do I feel most like myself? It’s definitely when I’m with my family, right? So on the personal side, I am fortunate that both my parents are in good health in their 70s and actually just decided to permanently relocate to Florida. So they’re close to me. They sold their home in New York…

Lesly Cardec: That’s awesome.

Joanie Bily: On long island so it’s kind of funny because now I go to New York like every other week and then they’re here always in Florida but you know being with family I have I’m the oldest of four girls actually looking forward to a sister trip coming up at the end of this month where we’re all getting together with my mom and and then being with my kids right and there’s nothing like family that just that grounds you, right? And they know you better than anybody else. And then I’m fortunate to have a large extended family and some really great friends. But that’s what it’s all about to me. And that always comes first when I think about goal setting, right? You know, faith is very important to me, family and friends, like those are the things that are at the top of the list.

Lesly Cardec: I love that. So my natural next question would be, what’s the plan to get your sisters down here with you?

Joanie Bily: Oh, I would love that.

Lesly Cardec: Yeah, if you’re listening, Joanie’s sisters…

Joanie Bily: I just want the whole gang to come. I keep trying to recruit them. I think they would love it, but of course they all have careers they’re committed to. So we might have to wait till they’re retired at some point.

Lesly Cardec: Yeah, yeah. I’d love to just dig in for one second because I know one of the books that you’re authoring is Dive In Deep. And so going back to that whole imposter syndrome and just, you know, feeling like you belong in the room, in that seat. If someone in our audience is leading through uncertainty right now, which there’s a lot of uncertainty for folks right now, what lessons from your book do you think would be most valuable or what lesson?

Joanie Bily: Yeah, some people probably don’t know the meaning of even the title of the book, which speaks exactly to what you’re asking me. And the reason I chose Dive in Deep is really a metaphor, right, from a story that I relate to when I was a very little girl. I remember I wanted to like swim in the deep end of the pool.

And I remember standing at the edge of the diving board and I was so fearful of diving in the deep end of the pool, which is funny, like other kids probably didn’t have that fear whatsoever. But I was really scared. And anyway, when I finally got up enough courage to actually just dive in, I ended up having like one of the best days of my summer that year. It was just, was with all my cousins, played in the pool. Like, I noticed that, like, okay, sometimes you have to take risks. Sometimes you need to embrace fear and dive in anyway. And so I use that as a metaphor because I can relate that experience to so many things in life. You know, whether it’s, you know, trying to tackle a new project, maybe it’s a new role, maybe it’s a goal of someone that wants to run a marathon, and it can be a little overwhelming at first or fearful. Can I really do this? So I named the book Dive in Deep really because I’m encouraging people to embrace your fears, but don’t let it hold you back from living the life that you desire and that you absolutely deserve to live. And so the book is really written in a series of like the deep process of how do you design that life that you want to live? And then how do you get enough experience and how do you execute? And then we all need to persevere because we come against, you know, hardships and challenges and obstacles and just life, right? Like just life getting in the way and we have to persevere through those things. So I would just encourage anyone, if you’re at a time where there’s something you really are passionate about or you want to pursue, but you even have some challenges or obstacles in the way, to still embrace it, own it, find solutions, and I encourage them to dive into that next chapter for themselves because they don’t want to have any regrets down the road.

Lesly Cardec: I love that message. Thank you for sharing.

Leslie Vickrey: And Joanie, your point about diving deep into the deep end makes me think about not letting fear get in the way of the outcome. One of the things I love is I remember you telling me a story about Chase really embracing your planning and your process and putting a sticky on the bathroom mirror and all of the things and my son’s nine, but I also deeply relate to the dive in deep with him because he tends to lead more with that fear-based thinking and I lean into your philosophy and try to remind him too that you know the outcome can be so much greater so how can we turn that worry brain off and focus on you know doing something that may feel scary and it’s okay to feel those feelings it’s also really wonderful when you feel the outcome and so proud of coming out on the other side too so thank you

Joanie Bily: Yeah, and know, Leslie, just to add on to that, one thing I try to tell people is think about that there is water in the pool. I mean, the first time even back to that metaphor of diving in, I know it wasn’t like I did a beautiful swan dive, right? It was a big belly flop and not a great dive, but there was water in the pool, right? And so you got to think of that in life too. You know, don’t want to get stuck. And that’s what I see sometimes with so many people. I’ve seen it even with my kids where they’re letting fear kind of hold them back from really pursuing something or trying something and they get stuck. And so it is that how do we help create a safe environment where they will take risks and try new things, especially when they’re younger, right? To figure out what do they like, what do they don’t like?

But then in life, later in life, you have to make some decisions. You can’t stay stuck. That fear can paralyze you and it’s not a healthy place to be.

Leslie Vickrey: No, it isn’t. Well, thank you for sharing that. And Joanie, before we wrap, I just have to ask you, is there anything else coming up in addition to our book launch, of course? And that could be what you focus on, but anything coming up with initiatives, personally, professionally, that you’d love to share with our listeners so they can get excited about it too.

Joanie Bily: Well, I am so excited about our book, our new book, Rising with Courage, and getting that officially launched and out into the world because the stories I think will really help both men and women with advice, practical advice, hopefully, inspiration. And so super excited about that. I’m also really looking forward to this March just being Women’s History Month and having Women’s International Women’s Day. Dress for Success is also launching kind of a refreshed brand and new messaging and really talking about our future in this next phase of where we’re going and have some exciting things that we’ll be sharing certainly with the world and with our Dress for Success community. So March is really going to be a great month and I can’t wait for that.

Leslie Vickrey: Wow, the first three months of this year are big for you, Joanie, which are just kind of setting the stage for the rest of the year, which I know again, like Lesly said, put those positive vibes out there. Joanie, I’ve admired you for so many years and I remember the first time we formally and officially met like it was yesterday and I love the fact that Lesly worked with you as well and now publishing books together. You just never know where friendships and relationships can go and I always tell that to people, you know, when they’re thinking about building a network and finding their people, our industry is full of some of the best. So speaking of that, where can people connect with you or follow along with your work? What’s the best way to do that?

Joanie Bily: There’s a couple ways, but certainly LinkedIn is great. Connect with me on LinkedIn. I do try to stay pretty active there. I’m on Instagram as well. And then of course, Dress for Success. You can certainly connect with me there. My email is jbily@dressforsuccess.org and would truly love to connect with more people in staffing about getting involved with Dress for Success because there is such a great connection. It’s really all about helping these women find pathways and have opportunities to advance and continue their careers. So I welcome the connections.

Lesly Cardec: Amazing. Well, thank you, Joanie. This was so fun. Thanks for being our first official guest on the new podcast.

Joanie Bily: Thank you both and congratulations on this new podcast. I’m honored to be your first guest and wish you all the best of luck with it. Thank you for having me.

Leslie Vickrey: Thank you for being with us. And Leslie, we did it. First episode. Joanie, thank you, thank you.

Lesly Cardec:How amazing was that? That was incredible.

Leslie Vickrey: I love Joanie. She’s the best.

Lesly Cardec: I know, we could have hung out here for hours, but we do have other jobs to do. But before we wrap, what we want to cover on these podcasts is, which we hear a lot of from us, is our Take Five. It’s the parts of the conversations that we’ll be taking with us long after the mics turn off and we go on about our days, and we hope you do too. So let’s kick that off, Leslie. What was your kind of, not necessarily an order, but let’s go through our top five. What would be one of yours?

Leslie Vickrey: Okay, for sure with Joanie, Impostor Syndrome. I always find it fascinating when you meet someone and talk to someone, and I mentioned it on the podcast where I’ve admired Joni for a really long time before even getting to know her, and then once I got to know her and she opened up and would talk about her imposter syndrome, I was shocked. One, she always seems so put together. She’s on the news all the time. She’s known as like the thought leader of the staffing industry and reporting on jobs and all of the things. And when you look at her, see her, how she carries herself, frequent speaker at conferences, chair of the board of ASA, all of the accolades, you would never ever think for a second that she struggles with imposter syndrome. So for me, it’s really enlightening and inspiring actually to hear someone like Joanie say, no, I struggle with that too.

That stands out for me is it’s not to make assumptions about people based on what you see or what you hear. And just I’m grateful for Joanie being so transparent and sharing that because it helps other people, myself included, realize that you’re not alone.

Lesly Cardec: I love that for so many reasons because even I mentor someone and they came to me recently with the same feeling and when I had shared, oh my gosh, I had that feeling last week. It was shocking to them. I’m like, what? I guess because it’s like in their mind.

I’m supposed to have everything figured out and have this confidence 100% of the time. Which kind of goes hand in hand with my next, one of my top takes is really checking yourself. Like you’re in the room for a reason, you were invited to this for a reason, you were nominated for this for a reason. So really hold your space and own it. And it’s not easy to do. It’s constantly that inner, you call it the inner DJ, that person that you’re constantly, it’s like the loudest voice ever. That is the hardest to mute. But just knowing that your seat belongs there and, if there’s not a seat, you know, there’s a saying, create one, pull one up. You deserve to be there just like anyone else. So, you know, check yourself. Look in the mirror, put your shoulders back, I remind myself all the time you probably saw it.

Leslie Vickrey: Oh my gosh, the posture. I know, same. I started slouching and I was like, no, no. You know, the way you hold yours. Amy Cuddy, right? Her podcast, fake it until you make it and or fake it until you become it. And part of her biggest thing is your posture. And Leslie, to your point, I talked about this a lot. We don’t always look in the mirror and see in ourselves what other people see in us and that’s where you know self doubt can can creep in so yeah.

Lesly Cardec: Yeah, totally. The other thing Joanie mentioned that I loved when she was talking about her Dive in Deep book was when you’re about to jump into something or you want to jump into something really scary and you have this fear, is just to remember that there’s there’s water on the other side of it. And I love that for so many reasons, because there’s a saying, I’m probably going to butcher it, but every hard time that you’ve encountered or gotten through, remember that you’ve always come out on the other side of it. And so it’s just a powerful reminder that we’ll get through it and it’s tough and the water may be choppy and wavy, but there’s something so beautiful about going through those times and just remember that you’ll get through it. So I just, again, it struck me when she said that because it’s super scary when you’re standing on the edge of that dive board and you’re just not sure what will happen or how this will pan out, but it always works out in the end, whichever way it goes.

Leslie Vickrey: Yeah, not to let the fear get in the way of what’s on that other side because to your point, you end up on that other side and to get there, enjoy that ride and journey as much as possible. So I love that one. All right, we’ve made it through three takeaways. I’ll jump in here with a fourth and know, Joanie is super optimistic and you know, I always say about myself too, like the glass is always overflowing more than it is even half full. It’s just how I prefer to look at things. But in a time when we all are looking for hope and hope feels so far away, there’s a saying that I like to say that my good friend Sandee Kastrul, the co-founder of i.c.stars, says is the hope needs you and you need the hope and to hold onto that hope. But when Joanie talked about ways to still find and look for optimism when hope still feels so far away, I think is critically important for us coming into this year. We’ve had a rough couple, few years, especially in the staffing industry, and we have to be optimistic. We have to have that hope, otherwise it could continue to go in a really bad way. So I appreciate her optimism and sharing that perspective.

Lesly Cardec: Yeah, I love that too. I know that’s something, you know, her sentiments and being very positive and looking for those, you know, breaks in the clouds. You carry that same positivity. So that must be an element of being a leader and something that, you know, strong leaders have in themselves because I’m sure sometimes it’s hard to find those breaks, but you have to keep looking for them.

Leslie Vickrey: Yeah, you do. We were talking about it earlier, just every day something different is happening personally or in our world and how to still remain optimistic at work and people when I say the hope needs us and we need the hope for ClearEdge, I am the hope and our team needs me to be optimistic and hopeful, also transparent and honest at different times. And it is, it is tricky. But today we’ve got to look for that and still find ways to remain optimistic. So, well, speaking of that, I’ll just say number five. How about, do you mind if I round out with a number five for us? Okay, very good. Well, Joanie, I loved listening to her story about becoming a CEO and that she realized really for the first time in becoming a CEO that it’s okay not to have all of the answers. And it’s an interesting perspective being a CEO just to know that we don’t have to have all the answers and it’s okay to ask for help. And quite frankly, like she said, it’s actually also better to ask your teams to help come up with the solution. So they’re not always relying on you and quite frankly, it pushes them to lead and to be better and stronger leaders as well because they’re pushing themselves and not always relying on you to do that, which I think is really important as a CEO. You can sometimes feel alone and you know you can get in your head with that evil DJ and imposter syndrome when you feel like you have to ask for help or you don’t know all of the answers and I was thrilled to hear her say that that’s one of the things she realized becoming a CEO is that she doesn’t have to have all the answers and the teams should not expect us to have all the answers either. We’ll do our best to find the right answer and they can trust that. So even at the top you can lean on others. If you feel comfortable in a role, and you just had this for yourself too, Leslie, where you and I were brainstorming and you stretched yourself into taking on, you know, running our Recruiting arm of ClearEdge. And that was a new and different position and role for you. And sometimes you have to take the leap into places you didn’t even consider. And Joanie’s case, private equity backed large corporation into an international nonprofit. And it is night and day, totally different, but you have to continue as leaders, I believe at least, to push yourselves, not become complacent, and make yourself a little uncomfortable sometimes.

Lesly Cardec: Yeah, I love that too. I mean, even at the top, again, the assumption that the CEO of a company knows everything. But how important it is just to surround yourself with really great people and knowing when to lean on them. And you should, like you said, to give them that space to step up to the plate.

Leslie Vickrey: Yeah, well, I lean on you and ask you for advice and feedback. It could be so many different things, personally and professionally. So hopefully that’s a good thing. No, I think it is a good thing. And again, I believe it makes your relationship stronger even as, you know, coworkers in a company and friends. All right, Lesly, that’s a wrap. Our very first episode on Honestly, We’re Learning. I learned so much.

Lesly Cardec: I know, I love this. This was such a fun way to kick this off. And again, this is just the beginning. We have some really exciting things lined up. Leslie, why don’t you share a preview of some of the amazing folks we have coming onto our podcast?

Leslie Vickrey: Sure, thanks Lesly. And yes, we have some really great guests lined up, Leslie, including Ben Eubanks, the chief research officer with Lighthouse Research and Advisory, Michael Smith, chief executive with Randstad Enterprise, Leslie Snavely, CEO and president of CHG Healthcare, a trifecta of Leslie’s for our podcast, which will be a ton of fun, Urs, Ursula Williams with the president of SIA, Erica Keswin. She actually was one of our guests for the Lady Leaders Book Club during the pandemic. That’s how we originally met her.

She’s a workforce strategist, author, and speaker, and Jonathan Grosso, SVP of Sales and Marketing of Adecco US. Lots of people lined up, wonderful companies. We look forward to having some heads of TA, CHROs, CMOs from the enterprise, all kinds of great guests. So I can’t wait. And quite frankly, the recap in top five was fantastic. So to hear what they have to say and then recap that will be a lot of fun.

Lesly Cardec: Yeah, that was great. And just a reminder, if anyone is interested in joining or has recommendations or referrals for folks that you think would be a good guess for all ears, we’d love to hear who you have in mind and we look forward to seeing you on the next one.

Outro: Thanks for listening to Honestly We’re Learning. If you liked what you heard, you can drop us a like, review, or comment. And if you want to hear more, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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