The AI Optimist’s Playbook: Reality Checks, Business Pivots, and Failure as a Strategy

Intro: Welcome to Honestly We’re Learning, a podcast from ClearEdge, the marketing agency that also helps marketers grow their careers.

Join Leslie Vickrey and Lesly Cardec as we explore the turning points that shape a person’s professional story, the highs, the stumbles, and everything in between. We’ll bring you candid conversations with leaders and rising talent, plus our own take on what’s changing in marketing and recruiting today. Because behind every success story is a few lessons learned the hard way. And honestly, we’re all still learning.

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Lesly Cardec:
Hi.

Leslie Vickrey:
Hi.

Lesly Cardec:
So crazy to see you again. Here we are. I’m excited to have Lauren Jones on with us.

Leslie Vickrey:
I agree. Good friend. Can’t wait to chat with her, learn from her, and share her story even more broadly.

Lesly Cardec:
What I’m excited about is the learning part. We’re learning so much from our guests. We’ve had Rodrigo on recently. Michelle, we’ve learned from everyone, by the way. Just, just we’re calling out a few just recently and each of the guests we walk away with something new. The latest from, for example, Rodrigo would be, you and I have spoken at least three or four times about the motivation he brings to us to live healthier lives. And I’ve started to follow him on Instagram and every time I’m…I did it on the couch the other day and I’m like, “Get up, Lesly. Get on your shoes, go outside.” Like, you know, so it has motivated me.

And then with Michelle, it was just standing in and feeling comfortable in your own skin and not being afraid to fail and what you learn from those failures and how to, you know, move forward and what you take from those failures. And she was so gracious and generous and transparent, all the things that we strive for this podcast to be. So there were so many takeaways and so many stories on that one. And I can’t wait to have her back.

Leslie Vickrey:
I know. Lesly, I feel kind of selfish because we learn so much from the guests. And I guess it’s a good sign that hopefully others are too. But you’re right, with Rodrigo in particular, one of the things I’ve gotten into a rut with is working out while I travel. I used to be so good about it. I’d find CrossFit gyms in towns and go to them. I would definitely run, the run, then turned into, well, I’ll do walk and talks.

And then that turned into could I sleep an extra half hour or an extra hour and not work out? But I was in Atlanta for work last week and I had him in my head because, well, like you, I follow him on Instagram. And he’s, you know, on the road to Chicago Marathon. So he’s posting a lot about his journey, the ups and the downs. And I had about an hour between when our meetings ended until I had a dinner.

And instead of doing what I typically would do, which is get on my laptop, catch up, all the things, rest, whatever, I went to the gym and it felt really good. So those small steps get back into habits and seeing, you know, seeing change.

And Michelle, the 10 and 2, with thinking about the leadership style. I’m doing this because she mentioned like the style piece of it, but I was writing a Slack idea, one of the ideas I come up with, to you and Jess and Gordon and the team. And I, in the moment of writing it, normally would have just hit send. And I paused for a minute and thought, my gosh, they’re gonna look at this and think it’s a 10. You know, like this is something that you’ve got to get on right away. This is urgent. And I wrote in there, thinking of this as a 10 or two, it’s a five. It’s something that is important but not critical. So let’s, you know, add this to a future agenda, but I want to get this out.

But what it caused it forced me to really sit in your shoes as the recipient of it to think, how are they going to take what I’m about to send them? And are they going to drop everything they’re doing to do what I asked them, you know, to do or to comment on this? And it really forced me to slow down and think about it.

So Rodrigo and Michelle, thank you.

Lesly Cardec:
I know, thank you so much.

Leslie Vickrey:
And again, all of our guests, but just wanted to share a couple of things that, you know, we’ve put into practice and hopefully you all are too.

Should we get on Lauren?

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. Let’s go.

Leslie Vickrey:
All right. We’ll see what we learn with her.

Leslie Vickrey:
Today’s guest is someone I’ve known in just about every capacity possible, as a client, a partner, a colleague, a fellow author, and most importantly, a very good friend. Lauren Jones is the CEO and founder of Leap Advisory Partners, one of the staffing and recruiting industry’s leading AI advisory firms. But if you know Lauren, you know she was talking about technology transformation and adoption long before AI became the topic everyone wanted to talk about.

She spent 30 years in staffing and has built a career around a pretty simple belief. The right information in the right hands changes everything. And Lauren has a way of cutting through the noise to get you there. She’s advised hundreds of staffing firms, worked with some of the biggest names in our industry, spoken on just about every major stage, and is now helping leaders figure out not just what AI can do, but how to actually put it to work inside their businesses.

She’s also passionate about making sure women aren’t left behind in this next wave of transformation, which led her to create Real Girls Roadmap to Mastering AI, a training program specifically for women navigating AI in the workplace. I would say a training program and books, Lauren is also a three-time author, and I’m especially proud to say that two of those books are something we got to create together. So I know firsthand that whatever she’s writing, a book, if she’s advising a CEO, if she’s standing on stage, or picking up the phone for a friend, Lauren is always going to tell you what she really thinks and leave you with something you can actually do about it. That may be one of my favorite things about her. There’s a theory and a very little theory for theory’s sake with Lauren. Her question is always, what can you do tomorrow?

She’s smart, direct, endlessly curious, incredibly generous. I know that firsthand, and I’m lucky to call her a friend. Lauren, I’m so happy we finally get to have this conversation. Welcome to Honestly, We’re Learning. Yay!

Lauren Jones:
Yay! Oh my gosh, best intro ever. First of all, I sound way cooler than I actually am-

Leslie Vickrey:
Not true, not true. You are cool.

Lauren Jones:
I mean, very gracious. Thank you so so so much for having me. I could not be more tickled to be here.

Lesly Cardec:
I echo everything that Leslie said. Just so excited to have you on. And I’d say also funny. You make me laugh. You make a lot of people laugh!

Lauren Jones:
Ya know, she says what she thinks! I’ll never lie to you. I’ll never lie to you.

Lesly Cardec:
Too funny. Well, we’re gonna start off, before you know wedig into that deep stuff, we’re gonna start with a little light. So I wanted to ask what is a hidden gem, a place, or a snack, or a ritual, anything that makes you feel like the very best version of yourself. What would it be?

Lauren Jones:
So my husband and I, so, we work a lot. I mean, we’re empty nesters and we both love what we do. So we work a lot. And oftentimes what we’ll do is we’ll space out our day kind of in two chunks. So we try and leave the actual office by three or four o’clock. And then, you know, I’ll come back online around six o’clock, five or six, so that we can have a couple hours together. We go and we have a beer on the pond every night with all the animals.

My version of beer, my favorite non-alcoholic beer, my husband doesn’t drink either. So we sit on the pond with all the animals around us almost every night, even when it’s warm outside to just enjoy one another, enjoy a little peace and quiet, enjoy our property and that definitely keeps me centered.

Leslie Cardec:
I love that. I won’t go into the animals yet because I’m hoping we will later or you might bring them in here for a cameo.

Lauren Jones:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we’ve got three little dogs here. We have five dogs at the farm now. My youngest took one back to law school with her, her little puppy back to law school with her. So we’re down to five dogs and we still got goats, but yeah, the farm is downsized just a little bit just over the years. We have a much older herd now, and but, you know, my husband and my f little hobby farm sent center me and ground me.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. I love that.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yes, I particularly love the raccoon rehabilitation and your little friends who come visit us during calls. And I remember Lauren the first time when you moved, started the farm, and were really starting to take a change with just who you were as an executive on the corporate side and what was, you know, most important to you in your life overall and I remember taking the stage with you at TechServe for a women’s luncheon when you were sharing the story for one of the first times for everyone to hear and just how much it resonated with the audience.

And you know, twenty eight years in an industry is really its own story. You have so many different chapters of your life within staffing and certainly it wasn’t a straight line, like many people’s careers have not been, even though we think it should be, it really isn’t.

And there’s usually a moment, sometimes it’s many moments built up into one moment, that changes the direction for everything that comes after. So tell us about a decision, a risk, or a turning point that really changed your trajectory.

Lauren Jones:
I’ve talked about a couple sort of inflection points, you know, the the death of my mother in 2018 was definitely one that I just knew how I, you know, and for those that don’t know, my mom died of alcoholism, and so you know, when something like that happens in your life, you have a very, very clear picture of what you don’t want, right?

And certainly that that was one of those things. I didn’t want to end up alone and you know, isolated, which alcoholism or any type of -ism can be very isolating. So, you know, there’s a tremendous amount of empathy that I felt towards my mother, but then there was a tremendous amount of sort of self-preservation and you know, what do what do I want to do differently? And in your personal life and professional life, those two things had never really mixed in my past.

And so certainly moving, you know, this pivotal point of moving to the farm and the death of my mother. These were all things where I’m sort of peeling my own onion and figuring out who I am and what I don’t want and what I do want. And, you know, so first you have this, I had, you know, my final boss in corporate America was just not great and really taught me what I did not want out of a leadership relationship or a, you know, superior/mentor or a subordinate relationship, what I never wanted, how I never wanted to make people feel, you know, and then you have this what I don’t want in my personal life and then now how am I gonna find some sort of balance?

And Joyce Russell’s, you know, work-life integration, stuck in the back of my head very early on as we started getting closer and closer as Lady Leaders and gave myself a little bit of permission to let my personal me be my professional me and be okay with that and be more comfortable in my skin. And I do think that that takes time, but you know, decision risk turning point, it was just like this amalgamation of different points that were really unfolding for me as to who I wanted to be, both professionally and personally, who I didn’t want to be, what I wanted in my faith, what I wanted in my family, what I, you know, what I wanted in my finances.

All of those things were just becoming more and more clear the more life you live, I think. You know, you gain a lot of clarity with with age. I think they call it wisdom, I call it clarity.

Leslie Vickrey:
I like clarity.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. And I always think to myself, like, why does it take so long to get to that point? Like, why how do we speed that up so we can…

Lauren Jones:
Right? I have zero Fs to give about what people think about me today. And I’m like, if I could have like not had so many Fs to give when I was younger, it would have been awesome because I had so many of those to give.

And I just wish I would have exhausted all of the Fs way, way long ago.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. Yeah. But you’re right. It’s like people try to give you advice and half the time you don’t listen. So you have to experience the challenges yourself, so I love that. I love those examples and just how you’ve come into your own and maybe we can figure out something, maybe it’s a magic potion we can come up with that can rewind time in twenty years.

Lauren Jones:
I think there’s a couple things, you know, earlier on in my career, I wished I would have asked for help. I think that would have revealed a lot of clarity. I wished I would have just spoken up in general, you know, whether it was something that was sort of hair triggering or, you know, something that like this is not right. There’s so many times I look back in my career where I was like, why did you do that?

And you knew, you know, you didn’t listen to your gut or you knew it was wrong or you knew the outcome wasn’t gonna be good. And yet there might have been outside influences that, you know, where you just were like, I’m just gonna, we’re just gonna shove that back down. And you know, if somebody would have told my younger self to, you know, make sure you ask for help. If if something’s wrong, say, you know, something doesn’t feel right, say something and be comfortable saying something.

I think those those two things are really big and I wished I would have done earlier in my career.

Leslie Vickrey:
In fairness, what I would say is we didn’t have what the generation coming up has now, which is each other to share these stories. We didn’t have podcasts really. We didn’t have, think of all the webinars, THRIVE with ASA, TechServe’s Women’s Luncheon. A lot of people would say to me, this is the first time I’ve ever heard someone share their story or their experiences.

So we didn’t have role models who shared that. Our role models were separating personal and professional. They were working themselves literally to death. And, you know, who could come in the earliest, who could stay the latest? That’s what we grew up seeing in the role models we had as women in the workforce. And today, that’s why we, you know, wrote our books and why we have these shows and share these different stories.

So it’s better for that next generation, but there’s so much available resource-wise today that we just simply did not have growing up in our professional careers.

Lauren Jones:
So true. And we weren’t necessarily free to say the things that we thought maybe were problematic or, and, you know, when you look at, you know, why was there so much, you know, female to female conflict, you know, in in our generation, and you know, largely environmental in that there were very limited positions for women around a boardroom, and so yeah, some of it’s environmental for sure.

And some of the icons that you look at, I mean, I remember it used to be like a badge of honor how few weeks you could take off for maternity leave, right? I mean, I came back at five weeks and that was like, there’s your badge, right? Like it was like having a baby with no epidural. Like there’s no trophy at the end of these things, guys. Babies coming whether you like it or not!

Nobody’s handing you a gold medal, like way to go. Yeah, right. And but for whatever reason it was like how few weeks can you take off for maternity to leave? And now I think we’re at a much more, you know, we always swing the pendulum too far, but you know, I think we’re starting to come back to center and and I do think that we’ve made it a lot better for the next generation of women that will, you know, be our replacement, so to speak, or be our next generation.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. Such good points. Such good points. We can talk about that the whole time, but we’re gonna we’re gonna pivot a little bit. I wanna talk a little bit about change. So you’ve built your whole business around helping people navigate change, and there hasn’t been any, right, over the last few years? Which means you’ve probably had to sit in a fair amount of it yourself to be able to, you know, guide and advise all of these companies.

So what’s a recent challenge that, you know, that pushed you out of your comfort zone and what important lesson is it helping you learn right now and help others with?

Lauren Jones:
Yeah. So navigating this market has been, look, I have been exceedingly transparent about all my failures. I call myself the CFO, the Chief Failure Officer. If I am not, if my team is not failing, they are not trying. Like I am all for like how did you mess up this week and what did we learn from it? So there are so many hard won, you know, lessons, and you know I vocalized a few of them, you know, failed merger, like I had a trademark dispute that was very expensive for my organization. So like so many hard won lessons.

This year I will tell you that I made some really, really critical decisions for my organization in particular, that were just really, I mean, tough, tough to navigate. First was, you know, the services industry is changing. I mean, it’s really changing and it’s changing fast. I’ve been traveling the country for the last four years teaching tens of thousands of recruiters and salespeople on AI, hundreds of executives on AI. And I really try and practice what I teach.

And that means continually looking at my business and interrogating whether or not, you know, is my business working, is it scalable, is it sustainable? So we were looking at our work and you know, what consumes my team’s time, what gives them joy, what doesn’t bring them joy and then you have to couple that with, okay, what are people actually buying?

And these, you know, giant service, you know, traditional SOW engagements just aren’t, they just aren’t being handed out like they were, you know, four or five years ago, you know, where we had these, you know, big multi-year engagements.

And so I had to really pay attention to what people were buying and what were they willing to buy. And so this year has been completely turning Leap upside down and we’ve embraced building product. We’ve embraced, you know, we turned Real Girls Roadmap to Mastering AI into the real AI agency. That was based on months of finding out what worked, what didn’t work. Leslie was part of that experience or experiment.

And you know, we finally found the pocket with much trial and tribulation and a lot of money spent figuring out what our industry in particular, there’s a different buying threshold, in our world and different buying behavior that is that is very exclusive I think to our industry and so we had to get very comfortable being wildly uncomfortable which I will use the word hate or I despise that saying “get comfortable being uncomfortable.” Nobody likes being uncomfortable. I don’t want to be uncomfortable. Stop telling me to be uncomfortable.

But I am more like saying, you know, if you don’t challenge, you don’t change. Right? So I’d rather be challenged than uncomfortable. Which is probably just…it’s semantics, but I it makes me feel more comfortable inside.

And this year I have challenged myself to learn something new every day. I got a coach that was outside the industry this year, very purposefully because, you know, there are some behaviors that are happening outside of our industry that I think are gonna eke into here. And what’s that has meant is the first six months of this year, well, I feel like all I did was spend money, but we were learning, we were pivoting the organization.

That has been a hard, hard fought slog this year but we’re starting to see everything turn around. And I was telling Leslie earlier today, it’s like much like expenses, you know, on your P&L, it’s like you can have death by a thousand cuts. You can also have profitability by a thousand transactions.

And so I think thinking about business in a different way and services in a different way, we’ve now turned our services into memberships and so that they’re accessible to people. What people really want when it comes to advisory services is they want accessibility to an expert. And so we’ve tried to create that and so far it’s working.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah. I and I would say it’s definitely working. I always enjoy our conversations where you’re sharing, you know, what you’re doing to relook at your model. And again, it comes down to what do clients want? What are they willing to buy? And what are you, you know, really the expert at and can you deliver for them?

And you know, it’s interesting running the type of business you run, the type of business we run with marketing, and it’s changing at the speed of AI, which is both exciting and sometimes it’s a little scary. So when you think of that, you know, we talk about a lot of companies invest in technology, but they’re not changing their behavior. They’re not, you know, leveraging the technology that the companies think are so great for them to have. So you have the kind of really beautiful role of sitting at the intersection of technology, human behavior and an industry that really is changing at rapid speed when you think of every single function within a company we service. So when you think of that, what excites you and also what worries you?

Lauren Jones:
I start every, you know, one of my classes with, look, I’m an AI optimist. I think it’s gonna do more good than bad. I think, you know, when I saw some, you know, only you can prevent data centers. And I’m like, guys, they’re now self-contained, you know, energy, like it doesn’t have to be this big scary thing. We don’t have to turn it into…

That’s what scares me is the fear around AI and the like let’s get our pitchforks out and go protest and let’s like not change our behavior and let’s pretend like it doesn’t exist. I am an AI optimist. Again, I think it’s gonna do more good, but the thing that scares me is the fear and sometimes it’s nonsensical fear.

And you know, I hear all the time, “Well, AI doesn’t work. I used it once and AI doesn’t work.” Well, shame on you.

I tried to do a cartwheel once and I couldn’t do one. It’s called practice, you know. I tried to play the piano and I couldn’t. What so I used AI once and it didn’t work. Yeah. Okay. So try again. Practice a little bit. Keep trying. Maybe educate yourself a little bit on how these tools work, what makes them work well, what makes them not work well.

You know, it’s policy, education, enablement. I’ve said that for four years and yeah, those are the things that I’m an optimist. I think it’s gonna do great things, but I think just like with every other revolution, whether it was, you know, electricity or cars or what have you, we just love to just put fear, you know, invoke fear into everyone.

I don’t know why. I don’t know why we do that to ourselves ’cause it’s like we don’t know history. We always come out on top, guys. We always adapt. We always overcome.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. Right. I was gonna say we always adjust. I was just reflecting on a conversation with my mom who is trying. She’s trying. She’s like, What’s that chappy thing? I’m like, forget it, mom. She calls LinkedIn…hi mom if you’re watching…but she calls LinkedIn, Linky too. So I’m like, I just…

Leslie Vickrey:
Yes. My ten year old son just popped out earlier again with like, Okay, I’ve created another YouTube page. Here’s the picture I created using AI and all these things. Like these, you know, they’re going to catch us. So we’ve got to, you know, stay on top of that.

Lauren Jones:
Think about things. I mean, are your kids gonna learn how to drive? Like I just spent all of the weekend in San Francisco in Waymos. We went everywhere in Waymos. And so, you know, is the next generation of children gonna learn to drive? We have simulation, you know, are you, are we gonna, are we gonna need driving instructors anymore? Because we have live simulators now that you know, so it I like the world changes.

And we as humans have always adapted, we’ve always overcome, we’ve always done more with what’s at our fingertips. I’m not sure why this would be any different. And so why we continue to, you know, it’s the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over.

Leslie Vickrey:
Hey, Waymo, were you a fan of Waymo?

Lauren Jones:
Yeah, absolutely, I got to listen to my music. The temperature was what I wanted it to be when I got in the car. It wasn’t some stanky car. It doesn’t let anybody in the car unless your phone is there. So I felt safe like, you know, some stranger wasn’t gonna jump in my Uber. Let me tell you from my daughter’s perspective, you know, going out late at night, I always had her order an Uber Black because I was just, you know, Uber and Lyst they kind of scare me. So I have her buy the more expensive car, just hoping and praying that, you know, that’s gonna be a better experience or a more experienced driver.

And so the idea that she could come home at 2 AM in a Waymo, makes me feel a hell of a lot more safe. And I know it makes her feel a lot more safe. So yeah, it was awesome.

Leslie Vickrey:
I loved it too.

Lesly Cardec:
I have never driven in one before and I feel like I need to be tranquilized before I do that.

Lauren Jones:
You would be surprised how quickly you adjust.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah, I’m sure I would, but I’m like, you know, I just…

Lauren Jones:
Ours got stuck. We actually were in the middle of an interesting s was like, give us two minutes. We’re recalculating ’cause we couldn’t go anywhere. We were on a left turning lane and there was a truck in the lane, so we couldn’t go anywhere. So it was like recalibrating, recalibrating, recali…You know, but she got out of the way. She was fine. It’s all good.

Lesly Cardec:
I’d be in the backseat, like breathing in between my legs is fine. It’s all right. I would make it out. I’m gonna do it one day. I’m not scared to, but okay, let’s pivot a little bit because I want to talk about the human side. To do the work that you do helping others go through change, your organization has gone through so much change. It takes a type of setup and infrastructure at home, like I just want to dig into that. I love this question for people who join because to lead at this level, it takes a support system, a plan, organization to some extent, the routines, all the things that make your world, you know, go on a straight path, hopefully.

So what does that look like so you don’t burn out with everything that’s going on?

Lauren Jones:
So I have the best support system in the whole world. My husband’s my biggest fan. I mean, and we’re one another’s, you know, biggest supporters. I work for him on the weekends at the racetrack. He works for me as as one of my PMs during the week when we’re in busy season and so there’s just this.. he knows my business, I know his business. So we’re in a little bit of a unique situation and we work together every day, work in the same, you know, this is our building here. He builds race cars. I build tech stacks, right? And so, you know, we work together all throughout the day.

It takes a lot of communication. Even though we’re in the same building and doing the same things, we’re going the same…I was like, when’s Champs again? You know, when are you leaving? He’s gonna be gone for eleven days. And that’s the longest we’ve ever been apart. So I’m sort of dreading that in September.

But it takes a lot of communication. I’m looking over here. I have his calendar, my calendar, you know, there’s a lot of orchestration. And then with our girls, I’m a new grandma, so I have to make time, you know, we’re new grandparents. We’ve gotta make sure that we like this weekend, we made time to go spend the weekend in San Francisco with our youngest because she was going back on Sunday.

And so to be very purposeful about where you’re going to choose to spend your spare time because it’s few and far between. And that’s where that work-life integration comes in, right? You know, we’ve got some integration there. My girls are wildly supportive of you know, my business and very, they’re both very proud.

I have an amazing support system, number one. Number two, I have a partner that really grounds me because I can be a lunatic and I mean we very much balance one another’s energy. He’s very calm, and you know, I’m like, you know, I rise high. He goes, you know, kind of keeps everything even.

I can be very, very analytical and he’s more of a build your wings on the way down kinda guy. So there’s just this complementary skill set that we have, but there’s a lot of transparency and a lot of communication as a family, as a partnership, and a marriage and and running two businesses.

Lesly Cardec:
There has to be, you’re with each other all all the time. I’m just thinking that, like, oh gosh. but…

Lauren Jones:
We could not have done this in a younger part of our marriage. We would have killed one another. It would have been war of the roses, but you know, now we sort of relish the time. We’re in the codependent stage of marriage, so it’s, I mean, we love coming to work together. Again, we both love what we do. So just enjoying this part of the journey.

Lesly Cardec:
This phase. I love it.

Leslie Vickrey:
I love your love.

Lauren Jones:
I know. Everybody knows I’m just a sucker for my husband, so…

Leslie Vickrey:
Hey, you know what? You love each other deeply and dearly. That’s a gift. So it’s fun to watch too from the outside. All right. So you’ve spent your career close to the conversations happening. Really, when you think about the executives you work with, you also work with the people on the front lines, the sales reps, the recruiters. You’re working with the innovation teams. You also work closely with the companies developing the technology.

You have a lot of really close partnerships and you want to make sure the two are working hand in hand together. That said, if you could, based on everything you know today, shift one conversation or narrative happening in the industry right now, what would it be?

Lauren Jones:
If I could shift one conversation, it would be stop overcomplicating it. AI is only as difficult as you make it. And I think the thing that, you know, I am trying to, you know, really ingrain in our students, in our, you know, our first large class, you know, we’ve had hundreds of people come to our free webinars and we’ve had a very, very large class that we started in July, but there’s a lot of overcomplicating it going on across the board, whether it’s the end user in the field, overcomplicating, you know, how they’re applying these tools, or the executive that’s bringing in all of the out these outside tools as opposed to if you’re paying for Microsoft, why aren’t you using Copilot?

It’s a perfectly capable tool. why are you overcomplicating it by bringing in, you know, you don’t have to have Claude, you don’t have to have Chat GPT. And both of those LLMs are available within Copilot. And yet you have so many firms that are just layering on all of these tools and creating the same Frankenstack that we created you know in 2016 and so we’re just doing it all over again.

It’s like, go back guys, read your history book. You know, what were some of the things that you did wrong when we were first layering in technology and talking about there is no transformation without integration and really building out your tech stack. Well we’re doing the same thing with AI. We’re layering on all these things. We’re doing AI just for the sake of doing AI and we’re just overcomplicating it.

I want to change that conversation.

It does not have to be hard, but what it does have to be done, is it has to be done right. And that is where my energy is focused. And that’s the other part of the conversation that I want to change is like, you know, people are blown away about with my LinkedIn content. That’s all autonomous now. It took me 18 months to build that, guys. Like, and I have to devote an hour to it every week to make sure I keep it updated. But how many hours in the week is it saving me? I can tell you I used to spend a couple hours a day on content, on blogs, on articles, on this. And I no longer have to do that. But I put in all of the time in the, you know, in this huge library of content that I had already created, three books, you know, and I have so much content that I’ve distributed organically. So I have a pretty large footprint, but I put in the time, I put in the effort.

There is no easy button. So don’t come to me and say, can you make my LinkedIn content just like yours? Because in a way, yeah, I can. It’s gonna take time, it’s gonna take effort on your part. Absolutely, I can do that. The answer is yes to all the things, just be ready to put in the work.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah. I think one of the challenges is the quick fix mentality. I can do, you know, AI works so fast. So shouldn’t all of these things kind of come together? And doesn’t that mean we can do it cheaper and faster? Or, you know, I liken it to when people come to us and say, Well, couldn’t we just do an email campaign?

No, you need to do multi-channels typically, or hey, let’s talk about your business challenge first before we go into a tactic and that’s one of the things I love about what you’re educating people on is let’s look at what you’re trying to do first and then how can we leverage AI to help you with that. And it’s not going to be an overnight solution for you, but when you take the time to really look at it, learn the tools, you know, apply it to what you need as a business, you can see tremendous results, which you have seen and it’s fantastic.

Lauren Jones:
Absolutely. I mean, I’m saving a hundred I have 38 agents that work for my organization. I have 34 that we’ve documented on time savings and we’re saving $177,000 a year having these agents, you know, that are doing these parallel tasks and preparatory tasks for me and my team.

And I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth because I’m saying, hey, don’t overcomplicate it, but also don’t oversimplify it.

Don’t overcomplicate the application and don’t oversimplify the result. And so I think I think if people it’s just like anything else, right? It’s just like anything. What what you put in is what you get out. If you put in slop, you’re gonna get slop out.

Lesly Cardec:
And there’s a method to that madness too. And I know it’s what you’ve taught in your classes, especially the ones I’ve attended, is yeah, what you what you get what you give. You give it garbage, it’s not gonna come out the way that you want it to. And there’s a methodology around that. And it takes time to learn that and it takes reps to get it right. I love that.

Lauren Jones:
Yeah. And and and you wouldn’t hire a person, right? You wouldn’t hire a human being and say, write a blog post for me. Why in God’s green earth would you do that to AI? Right? Yeah. so we would take the time to train them to have a job description to like, if you can write a job description, you can write an agent. And so you’ve got to think about it that way.

Lesly Cardec:
I love that. Well, we’ve covered a lot of ground. This has been so fun. I knew it would be. And you’ve exceeded expectations. Before we go, I know you’re very visible on multiple channels, but where can where can listeners connect with you? What’s the best way?

Lauren Jones:
LinkedIn is probably my, you know, largest following. I’m the GOAT leader there. So you can find me there on LinkedIn. You can find me on Instagram, we’ve got The Real AI Agency on Instagram, on Facebook, we’ve got The Real AI Agency, and then you can go to our website, which is really awesome, leapadvisorypartners.com. And yeah, and come find me.

Leslie Vickrey:
Well, Lauren, what stands out most from this conversation is that you’ve really spent your career solving for what most people skip. And that’s not just buying the right tools, but actually building the habits and the culture to use them well. So thank you for sharing your story, your framework, your perspectives with us today. Congratulations on your continued success, new book, new workshops, and your new grandbaby!

Lauren Jones:
Thank you guys so much for having me. It’s always so much fun to talk to you and and I appreciate you giving me the stage.

Leslie Vickrey:
Of course, thank you!

Lesly Cardec:
Thanks, Lauren!

Leslie Vickrey:
Okay, Lesly, what a fantastic conversation with Lauren.

Lesly Cardec:
I know. It was so, it was so fun. I didn’t expect anything less. It was a lot of fun.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah. She always has the best sayings and phrases and and so forth. And I…let’s jump in to the take three. I know there’s probably a take ten, but let’s narrow it down to three. And I’m gonna kick it off because this is a theme that seems to be consistent, I think, with a lot of our podcast guests and is worth calling out, and that’s bringing your personal self to work, where people used to really separate and not talk about their home life or their personal life in the professional setting and, where the reality is today, it’s impossible not to. And she, part of that is, you know, thanks to the pandemic and COVID and people like we are right now, you can see my home, I can see your home. So there’s partially that. And then the other piece is, you know, she opened up quite a bit about the passing of her mom, when she moved and started the farm and realizing about herself what she wanted out of her own life. So she had a few moments in time in life that really forced her to realize, why am I separating these two? This is who I am and I want to bring my whole self to, you know, everything that that I do. So I really appreciated that.

And, you know, with me too, leaving corporate world, that was a big thing, was you did kind of have two different lives and here at ClearEdge, you and I could be talking business and then next thing you know, I’ve got Greyson popping in and you’re chatting with him and then we’re talking about your kids like it and then we’ll switch gears right to work.

Lesly Cardec:
A good example, Leslie, was what? We were on a prospect call the day before what, what I don’t even know what day it is, the day before yesterday. I think we’re on a call. And towards the tail end, the prospect’s son, the client’s son came in. He’s like, Hi. And it was so like natural, so nonchalant. We said hello. We were asking about the age. And then we quickly transitioned into business right after that as if it was nothing. That would never have happened years ago.

Leslie Vickrey:
I know. We may have a couple never would have happened. I’m happy it does happen. You get to really know people in a way that you didn’t before, which I love. Bring it on.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah, I agree. The other one that stood out for me was just when you think about your younger self and what you’ve learned through experience and trials and errors. And one of the things that Lauren was we well, we were all talking about was just the role models that we had have helped mold us to the leaders that we are. Now again, there’s still opportunities to change and there’s things that we carried with us that we don’t necessarily want to continue carrying.

But you don’t know any better, right? We talk about this theme of you are what you know. And what we knew was, you know, first one in, last one out, right? We kept saying that. And we talked about, you know, if you had a family, you didn’t really talk about it. You could have a sick kid at home, you could have parents that are not feeling well, you can have so much going on in the background, but no one at work ever spoke about it. And that’s changed so much. And I’m so grateful that it has.

I think it’s created more empathetic leaders, cultures. We’re all human at the end of the day. Everything there’s…not perfection happening in front or behind the screen. So I feel like it’s allowed us to get to know each other more in a way that’s really authentic. And I hope that continues. I hope the kid that comes in the background continues to do that.

Leslie Vickrey:
Right. Well, you’re right. It’s so the two takes, the first two really are similar. And one of the things Lauren said is early in her career, she wishes she would have used her voice more and stood up for herself more. And really, if she saw something happen, we always say if you see it, see something, say something.

And because we didn’t have the role models and access to leaders, especially women leaders as a women leader who were doing that. We kind of, to your point, emulated what we saw. And now there’s an opportunity that we never had growing up in the industry. We didn’t have, you know, TechServe at the time, NACCB’s women’s luncheon all of those years that we were growing up in the industry and being able to talk to each other or ASA THRIVE and all of the different work groups and work streams that the associations have for us in the industry and mentorship programs did not exist.

And those were things that, you know, have I know really helped both of us quite a bit in our careers personally as well as giving to others. And that didn’t exist, it does today. So we’re able to use that opportunity, platforms like podcasts, and so forth didn’t exist. So how we can help that next generation.

One of the things I love that Lauren said is she asked her team every week, what did you fail at this week? In other words, giving them permission to fail and turning it into a learning lesson. This will be the second time we’ve said this. That would have never happened as we were, you know, growing up in the industry and in our careers and professions. And, you know, really giving permission and having a safe space to do that. So I agree. The two blend together in a really, a really nice way.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah, it was great. What would you say is the final one? There are so many, but again, if you had to pick.

Leslie Vickrey:
Okay, listen, it’s Lauren. She’s all about AI and I love that. And I learned so much from her and what she and her company are doing. She’s an AI optimist. She does not let fear get in the way. She really leverages it to the benefit. That said, she wants people to realize it takes time.

We talk about this with, let’s say, it’s an email campaign and a client wants to see a result from the email campaign in a week or two weeks.

Well, really that’s not gonna happen. It’s false expectations and the reality just isn’t there. So people see her LinkedIn profile and and she’ll say, Yeah, I use AI, you know, for that. Well, I want that. I want mine to be that way. I want mine to be exactly like hers or yours if they’re talking to her.

And she would tell you, Well, that took me a year. It took me a year to perfect and work on it. And she gave the example of playing a piano. You hear someone who sounds incredible on the piano. It took them a while to master that. They didn’t just sit down one day and strike some chords and, you know, all of a sudden play this masterpiece. No, it took them time and possibly, in their case, years. So she said the same thing with AI. She feeds her agents with content at least once a week to help improve them, get better and stronger. And it takes time and patience.

And just because AI is fast, it doesn’t mean something can happen, you know, overnight. So while talking to her and taking her courses and learning from others and using it yourself, it may seem easy. And in some cases it is, but just like anything, it takes work to perfect and it takes patience. But to be an optimist like she is and to know that there’s a greater result on the other side if you take the time to invest in that.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. Yeah. I’ve really enjoyed that too. I mean, she used so many examples. Even like if you hire someone new, you wouldn’t just throw them in there. You’d, you know, you’d give them the background and onboarding that it needs, or that someone needs in order to be successful. So that’s the same way. It’s her reframe of that has helped me become stronger with leveraging AI as well. So, like we say, junk in, junk out.

Leslie Vickrey:
That’s right. Well, I love her passion. You can’t help but find her passion so inspiring about that and everything she talks about. So Lauren, we loved having you! Thank you for being our guest.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah, I hope you all enjoy as much as we did and we can’t wait to hear your feedback. Thank you.

Leslie Vickrey:
That’s a wrap. Thanks, Leslie.

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