Shaping the Future of Staffing with Optimism, Innovation, and Human Connection

Intro: Welcome to Honestly We’re Learning, a podcast from ClearEdge, the marketing agency that also helps marketers grow their careers.

Join Leslie Vickrey and Lesly Cardec as we explore the turning points that shape a person’s professional story, the highs, the stumbles, and everything in between. We’ll bring you candid conversations with leaders and rising talent, plus our own take on what’s changing in marketing and recruiting today. Because behind every success story is a few lessons learned the hard way. And honestly, we’re all still learning.

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Lesly Cardec:
Okay, we’re at it again.

Leslie Vickrey:
Hi Leslie.

Lesly Cardec:
Hi, how’s it going?

Leslie Vickrey:
Fantastic. I’m afraid to speak. I don’t want to talk over you right now.

Lesly Cardec:
I know. Okay. So for our listeners, we thought this was worthy of just calling out a moment for ourselves that we are continuously learning, hence our podcast name, Honestly, We’re Learning. We were on a podcast recently with Michelle Sims. It was awesome. I hope you guys check it out, but there was a moment where we realized that we both talked, you know, spoke on top of her.

We were so excited that we just couldn’t hold back and wait for her to finish. So, Michelle, thank you for not calling us out. However…

Leslie Vickrey:
I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. So the funny thing is, and Devyn, who edits and manages our podcast, is listening and will be editing this, but we were looking at the social media posts and the video clippings and all the all the stuff for posting and promoting. And Lesly, you called it out and said, Devyn, I think there’s an error with the editing. Something’s off. We’re interrupting, you know, Michelle, and, she said, no, no, that’s, you know, that’s how it is.

So then I listened to it and said the same exact thing. Not only the first clip, I said, I think it’s spliced over where I can tell exactly where it’s spliced. Let’s go back and look at that.

No, no, it was us being so passionate and so excited about her “let them” tattoo that we jumped on her. So I think it was a three-minute clip and she probably didn’t even get to say the name of the actual tattoo until a minute in.

But the lesson is pausing, taking a deep breath, and listening. And Lesly, you and I have heard this a million times. People will always say, Is it the three second rule? You know, even if you’re sitting in uncomfortable silence, you know, take that time to sit in the silence, sit in the uncomfortable moment to make sure you are actively and thoughtfully listening. And listen, this is something I struggle with personally, professionally. I get so excited I want to jump in and I am purposely and intentionally trying to actively listen.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. The funniest thing was that you and I were going back and forth and we were so adamant, “That couldn’t have been us.” Like we don’t do, we don’t do that. No. At least that that’s what I thought. And then, you know, we go to the original video and we’re like, yeah, that was us for sure. We we totally spoke over her. But yeah, yeah, it’s interesting. I’m the same way. I try to fill long what I call awkward silences when a lot of the times they’re they’re not awkward. The person on the other side is is in heavy thought or you know, trying to articulate their thought. But I need to work on that.

Leslie Vickrey:
Honestly, we’re we’re learning and that’s our takeaway and we’re gonna call ourselves out when we see it, to anyone I’ve accidentally, not intentionally interrupted, spoke over, whatever, it’s because I’m passionate and excited, not trying…

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. I just did it again.

Leslie Vickrey:
Oh my goodness. All right. we’re gonna lose this. We’re always doing this. All right. Let’s jump in.

Lesly Cardec:
All right, let’s jump right in.

Leslie Vickrey:
Today we’re excited to welcome Stephen Dwyer, President and Chief Executive Officer of the American Staffing Association, the voice of the U.S. staffing, recruiting, and workforce solutions industry. Stephen has spent more than two decades at the intersection of law, public policy, and the staffing industry. Since joining ASA in 2002, he has become one of our industry’s leading legal and policy authorities, testifying before legislatures and regulatory bodies, shaping conversations around the issues that affect staffing firms and the people they employ, and serving as a powerful advocate for the industry.

Before stepping into his current role, Stephen served as ASA’s president and chief legal and operating officer. On January 1st, he succeeded longtime CEO Richard Wahlquist, becoming the fifth chief executive in the association’s history. He also represents North America on the board of the World Employment Confederation helping bring the perspective of our industry really to the global stage.

He earned his undergraduate degree from Bucknell University and his law degree from Boston College Law School. I believe, I think, Stephen, that Legal Foundation plus your 24 years of experience directly inside ASA has given you a particularly thoughtful perspective on the challenges, opportunities, and rapid changing changes shaping the future of work really. So, Stephen, welcome to the conversation. I’m so happy to have you with us here today.

Stephen Dwyer:
I’m so happy to be here. Thank you. It’s, it’s really a pleasure. It really is. Thank you for the invitation.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah, we’re we’re so excited to dive in. I I know we were talking back and forth before we hit record, but when you see someone out there in the, in the, you know, industry circuit, you kind of feel like you already know them. But we’re just, we’ve been looking forward to this for for quite some time. So thank you for carving this out. What we’d like to dive into first is kind of, well I wish we can do this in real life is to go back to when we were twenty two. Well, maybe not. It just depends, right? When we go back to our twenty-two year old self and give ourselves one piece of advice, something not related to work, what would that be for you?

Stephen Dwyer:
For me, it would be listen. Really listen. I was so eager at twenty-two I was in law school and then when I came out of law school it was like okay, I’ve gotta prove myself and the way to prove myself is to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. It was the worst thing that I could have done, both professionally and and personally.

And I think the hardest skill, one of the hardest skills to master, is really to listen. A new world will kind of open up to you if you listen to others, sounds, everything. People are so impatient to speak. You know, Leslie, like you could be talking and someone would jump in and interrupt you because they think they know what you’re about to say.

Maybe not. Right? You could be going in a completely different direction. And that was me when I was early on. I was over-eager. And had I listened more, I would have been a lot better off. I would have related to people better. I would have had new horizons opened up to me. So, you know, who knows where life would have taken me if I was open to new ideas and really listened to what people had to say. And that goes, believe me, I haven’t mastered it still, but I try to remind myself.

Lesly Cardec:
This is timely because we actually were recording with someone and I got, recently, and I got so excited with what they said, I jumped in immediately. And it was just out of excitement, not because of anything else. And so it was a good lesson for me to pause, let the person speak. But you’re right. I think in the absence, when there’s silence, sometimes it becomes uncomfortable for folks. And so they they try to fill that void. But really, really good advice there.

Stephen Dwyer:
Thank you.

speaker-1 (08:31.32)
You’re so thoughtful though, Stephen, in the way you talk and present. You know, you have a way of helping us and it’s something Lesly and I are really working on. It was Michelle Sims who was just on our podcast and she has a tattoo that says “let them.” And Lesly and I were listening to the recording and we just posted it today live and we both said, I think you need to re-listen to that to the editor because we both kept interrupting her and it was a good lesson for us. It was passion and excitement. I usually get so passionate about something, I want to just jump right in and say something.

But you’re right to be thoughtful and really, you know, curious and listen and be intentional about that. So our podcast is called Honestly, We’re Learning. And honestly, that is one of the biggest lessons we’ve learned. And it literally you couldn’t have been more timely on that by bringing it up because it was a lesson we were learning and writing about just today on the way we host the show. So thank you.

Stephen Dwyer:
Two things to say about that. One, Michelle’s wonderful. Two let them from Mel Robbins, I assume that’s where that came from. Little known fact, Mel and I went to law school together, and Mel was a friend of mine in law school, and I knew Mel well back, back in the day. So

Lesly Cardec:
Okay. That’s interesting. So, Michelle, don’t get too excited when you…we’ll make it in an email.

Leslie Vickrey:
Maybe because of the personal connection we can get her to come speak at event, THRIVE, Michelle, you could interview her on stage. All the things. That’s funny.

Well, I wanted to interrupt you right when you were saying that to say, “No way, that’s incredible.” Very good. Well, listen, Stephen, it’s impressive when you think about how much time you have spent helping legislatures, regulators, really the media and the public overall understand the staffing industry.

There’s so much education that really needs to happen still to this day on who we are as an industry. And, you know, I am one of the judges for the Women in Leadership Scholarship Program and one of the almost every time without fail when someone is asked the question of on their application, what would you do to change the industry? It’s about our reputation and, you know, understanding who we are and what we do. And you’ve really been one of our most visible spokespeople when it comes to that.

So titles and job descriptions, they really rarely capture what someone actually does day-to-day. So we know some of the things you do day-to-day, but when people ask you what you do, what do you wish you could tell them?

Stephen Dwyer:
Well, that’s a really good question. Thank you for asking it. And to get personal, and you both know, I think you know, I had a double lung transplant and I was, last year in May of 2025, I was in the hospital for three and a half months. And during that time all the nurses would ask me that question, what do you do?

And I wouldn’t say I’m CEO or President or anything like that. I would tell them what I really do. And that is help others succeed. That’s what the role of a CEO is, in my opinion. And you know, when I was speaking with the board about taking on this role, I really had to do some soul searching about is that really what I want to do? Because that’s how I define being a CEO is, you know, you give them the resources and the perspective.

If you can help them with perspective, get out of their way, trust them, and invest in their success. And is that really what I want to do with the remainder of my career? And obviously the answer is yes. But that’s how I describe it. It’s not, you know, I lead an organization or I lead a trade association. It’s I help others succeed. It’s simple to say, really hard to do.

Lesly Cardec:
You’re exactly right. I think everyone naturally falls into the camp of the titles and how long you’ve been somewhere. So I have to think about that from a, from a learning standpoint for the for us of how we all introduced ourselves. And you’re right. That’s exactly, that’s exactly what you do, so thank you for sharing that. I wanna pivot a little bit and talk a little bit about knowing that you’ve been inside the industry’s legal and policy realm for a long time, long enough to watch the industry, positions, just the world, evolve so much in that time frame. What’s something that you believed in your career and you held so tight onto that that you’ve had to completely let go of?

Stephen Dwyer:
There are a couple of things. One I believed, maybe naively, I’m not sure if it’s naive as the right word, but I had the thought that if you were excellent in your craft, the actual work that you did every day, success would come naturally. And it may or may not.

There are so many other factors that go into it and I had to learn to nurture relationships. And really in order to progress and advance in my career, one I needed mentors. I needed to give back, and I tried to give back more than I always took. And so yes, hard work, mastering your craft, being open, however, to new opportunities.

My father was my best man in my wedding and he was my hero. And he was the wisest, most the smartest guy, but most wise person I’ve ever met. And he said, you know, I was kind of cautious by nature growing up, and probably still am a little bit.

And he would always say, Look, you know, really good opportunities rarely come twice. And you’ve got to be open to them. And you’ve got to open your eyes to actually see them. You may not even know that they come here that they’re presenting themselves to you. So all of these things, being open to new ideas, being open to new opportunities, to seeking mentors, to give back more than you take and nurture relationships, all of that is to essential to grow as a professional. But also as a person, I mean it goes right hand in hand. It really does.

Leslie Vickrey:
I just wanna say, Stephen, too, thank you for sharing personally about your double lung transplant and opening up about that, you know, with us too. And selfishly I’m really happy that you decided to take the role and the job and and go in and continue to help people. And I’ve been the benefit of you, you know, many times, multiple times, giving more than sometimes you take.

You’ve opened doors, you know, for me personally. Talked to me. You’ve met with my husband. You’ve, you know, done so much where it just speaks volumes to your leadership with the type of role you have and, you know, what you’re doing to your point. We do these things because one, it’s the right thing to do. We’re good people and good humans and, you know, want to do that and give back. It’s in our nature really to do that. I feel like I learn every time I do something like that as well, but it it’s hard for executives to slow down and take the time to do that. So I just wanna say thank you for for doing that. It really stands out and I I can see, you know, why that has helped you tremendously.

Stephen Dwyer:
Well, thank you. Because you give back too tremendously, Leslie. I mean, we have a mutual fan club going.

Leslie Vickrey:
Aw, thank you. I love that. It’s so fun having people on the podcast who we know and and love to have. All right, Stephen, you’re leading ASA at a moment when staffing, workforce technology, and policy, it’s all shifting at once. And, you know, listen, 24 years at ASA, we’ve been in the industry, I think I started in staffing back in ‘98. You know, we’ve all seen these moments in time, right? Where there’s shifts in different things happening.

Right now, the moment in time, there’s so many different things happening around the world, but you could say AI adoption, change in client demands, how firms are competing for growth, consolidation in the industry, new companies, companies joining, all of the things.

When you think of the future of the staffing industry, I I’d love to hear from you, and I know our audience would too, you know, what genuinely excites you? And again, I’m sure that’s partially why you said yes, you see so much opportunity in our, in our industry and at times what keeps you up at night as well. It could also be the things that excite you that keep you up, too.

Stephen Dwyer:
The things that worry, concern me are also the things that can excite me. Let me just kind of explain that. Some of the things that worry me. You mentioned AI. Obviously the impact on jobs, job displacement, job skills that are affected, that worries me to a certain extent. But much more so it excites me. I think this technology is going to transform our industry, and I’ve done a lot of thinking about this, in ways that we don’t know yet. But we’re already seeing it. Obviously, you know, the internal use of AI and technology benefiting staffing firms, we all know about that.

But you already see an industry that’s transforming more and more towards consulting, consulting with their clients about their workforces or AI implementation. You are seeing the beginnings of companies that are leasing robots out to their clients to do work and not just dealing with humans, but robots. So technological advances excite me tremendously.

Commoditization is, you know, what’s old is new again. It’s a problem that’s plagued our industry for years. It continues to plague our industry. But what excites me about that, Leslie and Lesly and any other Leslie’s out there is it’s an opportunity to do something that I think we could as an industry really improve upon and that’s better articulate not the services that we offer, but the value that our clients get from those services and therefore avoid commoditization and don’t sell based on price, but sell based on value. And I think that’s a tremendous opportunity.

And the last thing that excites me is the future of ASA. I mean, you know, that’s another reason why I took this job is this industry is evolving. And I think we as the trade the trade association, that’s how I view ASA, as the trade association or the industry. We have the opportunity to lead further the evolution of the industry, whether it’s consulting or robotics or better hiring practices, impacting more industries, impacting more lives, offering more impactful research and data to our members so they can make better decisions, policymakers impacting them. All of this excites me tremendously and that keeps me up at night not worrying, but coming up with new ideas and jotting them down and drives my wife crazy. But I have fun with it.

Leslie Vickrey:
That should be one of our questions, Lesly, in the speed round. Are you the one with the notebook next to the bed jotting down or your phone? I take my phone and I’ve got the notes open. Like, gosh, now my lights on. I need to switch this. But yeah, that could be a good question.

Stephen Dwyer:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s me.

Lesly Cardec:
I love that. All of that ladders up to your comment earlier about your mission of helping others succeed. So that all checks out and I love that. So many exciting things happening on the horizon. And you’re right, everything that AI and technology can offer, you know, to some people it’s a bit scary, but it I like how you described it in an exciting way, just the possibilities.

And I think a lot of this has created this rush of organizations that you know, are leaning on cost and price efficiencies when it’s like how would how do we tell the right message, right? What’s the right message when it comes to, you know, using that efficiently and what the value is to the client. So interesting, interesting comments there.

Stephen Dwyer:
The flip side of the technology issue, also exciting in my opinion, is getting back to something that really took a hit during COVID, in my opinion, and something that is ever more meaningful, and that’s human relationships. And strengthening those relationships. And it kind of all goes full circle. I was talking about listening and nurturing relationships.

Well, we can’t just rely on technology. If we do, I think we’re going to, as an industry, really miss out. And that’s something that we’re doing at ASA, really trying to increase the interconnection between members and dialogue so that they can learn from each other and benefit from each other. And I think that’s really exciting too, because we have that opportunity to forge those connections.

Lesly Cardec:
You know, you can get so much out of research and and data, but the conversation and context around what others are experiencing is such a value add as well. So, it’s almost like you anticipated what I was gonna ask next, which was we talk a lot on here about leadership as being a human experience. So not just a professional one. So I wanted to ask what’s something that you work on personally, not just professionally, that influences how you show up each day?

Stephen Dwyer:
What I work on personally is what I also work on professionally.

I have, for whatever reason, an exterior of, and I’ve known this for a long time, and people continue to tell me this: this serious demeanor. My exterior is serious. And yet, internally, and when I’m with my friends and my wife and, you know, I’m cracking stupid dad jokes and I’m acting like I’m 15 years old and all this. Right? So that serious exterior can be intimidating.

So what I’m trying to work on is showing, hey, Stephen actually has a sense of humor. He’s got a personality. He’s really very human. And but that’s not easy, for whatever reason, for me.

It’s a day to day like really I gotta consciously say to myself, smile a little bit more, you know, and tell what’s going on in your own life ’cause people do wanna hear these things. So yeah. That’s the big thing. Be more human.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah. Well I didn’t get that from you, but I almost was gonna put you on the spot and ask for a dad joke, but I won’t do that to you because doing a…

Stephen Dwyer:
Your listeners and viewers are thanking you right now.

Lesly Cardec:
But I might ping you later because my husband could use some, some help.

Stephen Dwyer:
Okay. Well you know what he should do? Okay, we had, my wife and I, drove thirteen and a half hours to Maine on vacation. We used Waze unbeknownst to my wife, however, I put on, instead of the normal person on Waze telling me directions, there’s a stupid dad jokes feature. So next time you use Waze, you can do that.

Leslie Vickrey:
We need to make note of this in our show notes to…

Lesly Cardec:
Also, I’m not gonna share that with him because thirteen hours stuck in a car with…

Leslie Vickrey:
And listen, on that note, I’m just gonna say this. I get that a lot too, believe it or not, at conferences and different things, I’ve had people come up to me and say, Why are you so serious all the time? Or if we’re out in different things and my team, my friends, my family would tell you, that’s not me at all. I like to have fun. I like to, you know, do different things and whatnot.

And I do, I think on the work front, sometimes feel like I have a responsibility and a role and a reputation and different things that I’m trying to bring to the table. And that’s who I am. So I do try to have fun within the groups I know, I love, and can be around. I also know that, you know, we have big responsibilities for the roles and different things we have. And sometimes it’s hard to find that balance on what fun means to one person and what it means to us.

So I think we can bring more fun within what that what that is, you know, for ourselves and something I can look at, you know, with you too. But at the end of the day, we are who we are and we bring who we are to everything that we do. And we bring our whole hearts and our whole selves to the industry, to our companies, our teams. And sometimes, and I had a friend in Breckenridge say to me, I can see in you when it’s the workpiece how serious you are. And, you know, she said, I understand why you’re that way. You’ve got a lot at stake and why you’re kind of cautious with, you know, different things that you do. And at the end of the day, I do have fun working every single day. I have fun with my team. I have fun with our clients and I have fun at events and different things. And if I come off as serious to some people, I’m okay with that.

Stephen Dwyer:
Yeah. I hear you. I had one of my mentors now said to me, and it was I think really wise, from the moment you walk into your office to the end of the day when you leave, your colleagues, your staff, everybody is watching you. They’re feeding off of your energy, your mood, your lack of energy, whatever it is, they’re gonna take their cues from you.

And Leslie, that’s a that’s hard, right? You know, every single day from the time you come in to the time you leave leave is to model. Nobody’s perfect. We’re all human. But at least trying to keep that in mind and trying to do better and lead with positivity and humanity, well, you know, that’s what we’re all going to try to do.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah. Well, I have a feeling you do that very well. And you know, like you said, we’re all human and do things in different, you know, in different, in different ways. And that’s the title of our podcast. Honestly, We’re Learning. And every single day I learn something new as a leader, as a wife, as a mother, you know, a daughter, a sister, a friend. It’s a constant state of learning.

So for our kind of last question, I think for you really is, as you are in this learning stance as well, which we talk about, even CEOs of organizations like you, you’re learning. How do I have more fun? How do I interject this throughout my day? How do I present, you know, a persona of who I really am and what I do day to day? What’s a belief or intention you are carrying with you, you know, into this chapter?

Stephen Dwyer:
A belief or intention..I believe, no, I know ASA’s best days are ahead of it. I absolutely know that we can do much more for an industry that’s kind of not sure where it’s going in a lot of ways right now. And I think we can help, if not define, clarify, for our members and help them succeed. Much like my role is internally is to help my colleagues succeed. ASA’s role is to help our members succeed. And I think we have such an opportunity to do it, and we will seize that opportunity. I have no doubt that our best days are going coming, just coming. We are evolving. Maybe even too quickly because we’re going through rapid change. But watch out folks. It’s gonna be a fun ride.

Lesly Cardec:
We always wanna end our time together just asking where people can connect with you or follow you.

Stephen Dwyer:
People can connect with me on LinkedIn. They can connect with me through the ASA website. They can email me directly: sdwyer@americanstaffing.net. And I love to chat with anyone in the industry, member or non-member. Does not matter. Anything I can do for them, please reach out.

Lesly Cardec:
Thank you for that.

Leslie Vickrey:
Thank you. All right. Well, as we close out, Stephen, if there are any any special projects, anything you want to give a quick shout out to the ASA group on, I know you’ve got staffing world coming up and you’ve already teased a lot of exciting things to come as well.

Stephen Dwyer:
We have Staffing World coming up. I think that our Women in Leadership program, I want to do a shout out to you, to the volunteer leaders of the Women in Leadership Group. I think it is tremendous. I support it wholeheartedly. It’s providing opportunity, connectivity, mentorship, community, for very important people in our industry to help them grow.

And I wanna do a shout out to our research and data department because we’ve made a significant investment in that. And you will be seeing, shameless plug, at Staffing World. Come to Staffing World, everyone. New really important research products that we’re gonna launch and roll out at Staffing World. So I’m super excited about that.

Leslie Vickrey:
Good. Can’t wait to see. Well, Stephen, thank you so much for being here with us today. And the shout out to everyone on your team, including the women in leadership. The other Lesly is sitting on the Women in Leadership Council these days. And I’m so happy to have her involved and supporting that. And it’s fun to remain a judge for the scholarships and all of the things. So I have to say, you know, your leadership style, it’s you know, precise, intentional. I love the way you present yourself in these moments. And it’s genuinely people first. Everything that you do, you clearly make that, whether it’s the industry, the association, or your team, you’ve made a case for this industry throughout your career. And I just want to say again, thank you for being here with us. Can’t wait to see what’s next for you and ASA and the industry. And again, I’m so happy that you said yes to the role and that your health is is going well and for spending time with us here today. Thank you so much.

Stephen Dwyer:
It was my pleasure. Thank you.

Lesly Cardec:
Okay, that was so great. I have not met Stephen before, but have seen him on in LinkedIn and also in person at ASA’s different events. And he is even greater than I imagined he would be. So kind, so smart, and so, so optimistic. He’s definitely someone that I think is here to, you know, raise the possibility for out industry. So I loved it. How about you?

Leslie Vickrey:
Same. I have known Stephen for quite a few years and I have had the benefit of his giving back and advising and different things. So I was really excited to get him on the show for one and also just to hear and tap into what his thoughts and plans are for ASA, the industry, and all of the things. So good human being right there.

Leslie Cardec:
It is. A good human. That’s a good way to summarize. Well, in traditional fashion, we kinda go through top threes. And so this was easy. There was many more than three. The first one for me, we started off the podcast talking about, you know, what would we tell our twenty-two year old self? I have so many things. Don’t ever ask me that question. It’ll be completely…

Leslie Vickrey:
We have our new our new topic for the next…

Lesly Cardec:
But he he gave a good answer. It was that he felt he needed to prove himself. And we talked about this ironically in the intro about not trying to fill the void of silence. And that was kind of his take of he would tell himself that maybe not talk as much, do more listening. And I think that’s really solid, solid advice, especially for someone, you know, new getting into the industry.

There’s so much to learn. We’re still learning, but especially when you’re new and you can just you’re a big sponge absorbing so much information from so many, so many people. but I thought that was really solid advice. And obviously not just for twenty-two year olds. Clearly, we all need that reminder.

Leslie Vickrey:
Well, it it when you’re starting out, you do, I think a lot of times people believe that they need to constantly prove themselves, right? And to do that, you are assertive, talking a lot, and feel like you’re adding a lot of value by doing so. And I loved his his advice. And I think all parents, anyone with a college grad coming out of school or any, you know, newer employees listening to this, you prove yourself in so many different ways, but you’ve got to learn to be an active listener.

If you can do that early on in your career, it’s going to benefit you so much more longer and it will stand out. It will help you stand out amongst other people and give you those opportunities that you’re looking for on the growth side.

Lesly Cardec:
So I love how you added the word active because there’s, you have to listen intentionally. There’s so many distractions, right? So actively listening and focusing on the other person when they’re speaking.

Leslie Vickrey:
I’m not on my email right now. I’m not checking my phone. My hands are in my lap. I am actively listening to you right now. Yeah, it’s a big, it’s a big difference. So yeah.

Lesly Cardec:
What would you say?

Leslie Vickrey:
My second takeaway would be really when you think about things that we talked about, what’s a, what excites you and what keeps you up at night. And we changed the framework, and he really did about usually when executives say something that keeps them up at night, it’s something that was worrying you. And he talked a lot about AI and technology and even robotics and different changes happening in our space.

And he led from a place of excitement and opportunity and not worry and fear. So when he’s up at night, and he said he drives his wife crazy, he’s writing down all these ideas in the middle of the night. When he’s up at night, and I know a lot of us can relate to that idea thinking and writing and things that come to you in dreams, whatever it is, his are around excitement and hope. He does not let fear and worry drive that. And quite frankly, when you think about the members and the association and the companies who are, you know, relying on ASA as an association to help move the industry and their companies and the membership base forward. A lot of those like executives are up at night worrying.

And I kind of felt more rest assured that he’s up at night it with excitement and opportunity and not letting fear drive that. That’s the kind of leader we need taking us into, you know, what the next chapter is for the industry. So I really appreciated that twist on, hey, just because you’re up at night doesn’t mean you have to be worried. It could mean that you’re actually really excited and see opportunity.

Lesly Cardec:
Yeah, that’s a big topic there, right? Stephen and his whole entire team have huge responsibility to our industry. And imagine if he was like, I can’t sleep all this, you know, just you have to be someone that leads with that type of optimism. Same with you, Leslie, I mean, you you have an entire company underneath you and imagine that’s why I know you always say, I know I always look half full…well, thank God you always look at things half full because, you know, we are looking to you to set set the stage and the tone. And so that’s definitely a characteristic that I think applies to many leaders is looking at things as opportunity.

Leslie Vickrey:
Yeah. Well, like you said, it’s what we present is what people pick up on and they use. So if I’m always nervous and panicked and worried and you get those calls from me too. But I for the most part you do try to lead by example and don’t let, we can’t let the fear get in the way of what that actual outcome is. You know I talk about that.

Lesly Cardec:
The other thing I love that he shared was just how important his relationship with his father wasn’t just how he was the best man in his wedding, which I love, but also his hero and so wise and just so many amazing things that that he shared about his dad. He mentioned that he’s cautious in nature. He mentioned that one of the one of the pieces of feedback, I imagine one of many, that his dad gave him was to really be open to opportunities. and that sometimes if you’re too closed off or cautious, you let things pass and just be open to the possibility when things come because sometimes that door doesn’t open for that same thing more than once. So I really loved that piece of device and just being open. There’s a whole world of of opportunities in front of us and we just have to be willing to embrace them.

Leslie Vickrey:
Right, right. Well, he had me at my dad was the best man in my wedding and my hero. Right then I knew he was gonna have something good to say ’cause you don’t always hear, you hear heroes, but my goodness, the best man piece. It just, I’m a visual person and it really came to me. And speaking of visualization, he said, you know, one of the things in that was his dad had said to him, You need to open your eyes to see those opportunities and

I know I see it with lot of people. And sometimes I feel like I’ve lived, you know, three, four different lives at times where maybe my eyes were closed and I didn’t see things that were happening or were right in front of me in those moments. And when I did open my eyes, it presented those opportunities for change. But a lot of people live their life not opening their eyes to different things. You get so busy in life and we know what that’s like. You’ve got your, you know, career, work. You can be taking care of your family, you know, not only your kids, but your parents or other situations that, you know, keep you from from doing different things.

And if you don’t take the time to slow down and look and really explore those opportunities, we all see the signs. We choose to see them or ignore them. And when you see them, it’s really opening your eyes to that opportunity and seeing what it what it can bring.

So he could have easily gone down the path of being an attorney and now he’s the path of the CEO of, you know, the largest staffing association. And you know, that’s because of the advice his dad gave him, you know, and and really looking for those opportunities and keeping his eyes open.

Lesly Cardec:
So good. So good.

Leslie Vickrey:
He said it. Mutual love best. I love those.

Lesly Cardec:
No, this was a good, this was a good one. We hope you all enjoyed as much as as we did and we will see you on the next one.

Leslie Vickrey:
Alright, thanks, Lesly.

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