Reframing Failure and Embracing a Nonlinear Path to CEO

Intro: Welcome to Honestly We’re Learning, a podcast from ClearEdge, the marketing agency that also helps marketers grow their careers.

Join Leslie Vickrey and Lesly Cardec as we explore the turning points that shape a person’s professional story, the highs, the stumbles, and everything in between. We’ll bring you candid conversations with leaders and rising talent, plus our own take on what’s changing in marketing and recruiting today. Because behind every success story is a few lessons learned the hard way. And honestly, we’re all still learning.

---

Lesly Cardec
Hey, Leslie!

Leslie Vickrey
Hey, Lesly!

Lesly Cardec
How you doing coming back from your trip? How’s everything going?

Leslie Vickrey
Oh my goodness. I wish I could say feeling rested and relaxed. As the saying goes, I need a vacation from my vacation. Mostly due to just travel woes, but overall the vacation was fantastic.

Lesly Cardec
Nice. Traveling’s never easy. I feel like you gotta prepare for, for the blips that happen. Nothing’s super smooth, right?

Leslie Vickrey
No, well, and as much as we travel, I haven’t ever had anything quite like these two situations happen on the way out and the way back. And it just really opened my eyes to the people who travel like weekly, all the time, how much they must run into. But

Lesly Cardec
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I’m curious, I don’t know if anyone else is, but a few episodes back we were talking about, well, I guess, accountability, right? And one of the things that relates to that is disconnecting. So when you’re taking personal time, really holding ourselves accountable to how do we step away? We’re not great at it. We’ve talked about removing apps from our phones and notifications and alerts and all the things. So how was this trip? Was there anything different about it?

Leslie Vickrey
Okay, so I did not remove any apps from my phone. I’ll just start with what I didn’t do. What I did do was remove any alerts or notifications, which really helped because then I knew that they were coming in, but I wasn’t checking my phone or my watch wasn’t beeping every time something came in to distract me and tempt me to take a look at something that came in.

So I did a much, much better job of disconnecting. In fact, there was only one day where I really looked at my email and something happened on the, on the email and I read a response to something and it set my mood and tone for the day in a negative way. And it was a reminder, a gentle reminder to be present in the moment and not let those things, you know, get to you or, or happen in those situations. So yeah, did a much better job. I, with Slack, with text messages, with email, just completely not checking, you know, throughout the trip.

Lesly Cardec
Good!

Leslie Vickrey
And I didn’t work in the morning. I didn’t try, also, I think the time zone change helped a lot too because I’d have to check it during sleeping time. And I just did not. And I when I woke up I didn’t check my phone first thing. It was really nice.

Lesly Cardec
Okay, so one, that’s good progress. Right, progress, it counts. Second, so any future vacations you have to be in a place that is sleeping when we are up and working.

Leslie Vickrey
I need all time zone changes. I came back and today, you know, I keep asking everyone, okay, so last week’s not a, like, it was pretty quiet. Everything’s great, everything’s okay. And we just have to remind ourselves like everything is going to be…Things happen and your team is there to take care of it, which you all did. So thank you for making sure everything stayed on track. Okay.

I mean, listen, about accountability, something I did not do a great job of, granted, it was super hilly where we were, so I walked every single day, like 16,000 steps, lots of steps were taking place. That said, I did not do, I did one workout during that whole time, other than the walking, which certainly could count, but not typical for my workouts. And you have challenged us to be accountability partners on that front and set up a Strava community for our team to hold ourselves accountable. So one thing I do want to work on now that I’ve got the “be present” piece figured out, it’s just that active workout piece. You have to be disciplined to get up early and fit it in. Colin, my husband, every single day he did, he woke up, did yoga, did a cardio workout. He is training for races, so he has something he’s working toward, but that’s something that I…

Lesly Cardec
Okay, first of all, you are the most disciplined person, probably in our well, I’m, weell, I take that back. There’s a few others, but you are very disciplined when it comes to working out. And I while you were talking, by the way, I was like, sixteen thousand steps that is a workout. That is a workout. Oh my god!

Leslie Vickrey:
It’s funny. It’s not relative, I mean…

Lesly Cardec
It is. And you were away. So apart, you know, you were in this beautiful location. So give yourself some grace. But now that we’re back, we have to get back at it and and motivate each other. And I, I do I do look at what everyone’s doing and it does help me. Like, a couple of times this past week I was like, okay, this person is hiking in the mountains and I need to get up. So yeah, I think it’ll really help us all.

Well, I’m looking forward to speaking with Kellen and I’ve just been looking forward to this, getting to know her and learning more about her background and her experience. So why don’t we jump right in?

Leslie Vickrey
Let’s jump in.

Today we’re excited to welcome Kellen Smith, CEO of 8020 Consulting, a PE-backed finance and accounting consulting firm known for bringing sharp financial operators into complex, high-growth businesses. Kellen’s path to CEO has been anything but one-dimensional. She started her career at Accenture after graduating from Rice University, where she also played Division I soccer and went on to build a career across finance, operations, leadership, and growth.

She has served as CFO, COO, President, and now CEO, leading private equity backed companies through major growth. And Kellen, this is such an impressive number: more than 25 M&A transactions, turnarounds, and successful exits. So, in other words, she knows what it takes to scale a business and what it takes to do it with discipline, resilience, and results. Most recently, Kellan stepped from COO into the CEO role at 8020 Consulting.

Where she is leading the firm into its next chapter and expanding its footprint. She also serves as an independent board director and audit committee chair for First Legal, and as volunteer CFO for the Exceptional Women Alliance, where she is also a past awardee. And beyond titles, she is a native Texan, a Dallas-based mom of four, and someone who has clearly built a career by taking on hard things and figuring out how to move them forward.

Kellen, welcome to Honestly, We’re Learning. We’re really excited to have you here with us today.

Kellen Smith
Thank you, Leslie, and Lesly. Thrilled to be here!

Leslie Vickrey
The two Leslie/y’s. We’ll try not to confuse you too much today.

Lesly Cardec
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I had to double check myself.

Leslie Vickrey
You can’t forget our names. It’s super easy.

Lesly Cardec
Thank you so much for joining. We’re so excited. We’ve been looking forward to this for some time now. So before we jump into like big career type questions, we wanted to ask you something a little bit different. So if you could go back and give yourself, your 22-year-old self, one piece of advice, what would it be outside of work?

Kellen Smith
That’s a great question. I there’s probably two that come to mind when you ask. I know you said one, but I might throw in a, a bonus one. Probably prioritize your closest friends. Life is a journey, a lot of ups and downs. Doesn’t matter what phase you’re in, ultimately you’re gonna need those close confidence, to pick you up and ride the ups and downs with you. Aside from that, find a hobby that you really enjoy and not one that is competitive soccer that you no longer can play as you’re near forty.

Lesly Cardec
That’s a good one!

Leslie Vickrey
I had the chills a little bit when you said the friends thing. I’m just coming back from a vacation with friends who have been dear friends of mine for so many years. And you’re right, we have to prioritize those friendships and not let work kind of get in the way of that, especially when you’re a hard pushing executive and trying to do all of the things. Those friendships matter so much. And I, I also find it very grounding.

Kellen Smith
I feel like it’s easy to get caught up in friends in a season of life or a phase of life and it’s more situational. But ultimately I think it’s those handful of close friendships that kind of walk every season of life with you and they’re hard to find. And so just prioritize, prioritize, prioritize.

Lesly Cardec
Yeah. I feel like we could go off on a tangent on that one. It’s so hard, but it’s…

Kellen Smith
It is, especially with a husband and four kids and a job, right? It’s extremely challenging.

Lesly Cardec
Yeah, I might need to to to dig into that one a little bit with you another time.

Kellen Smith
Absolutely. I, I can’t say I have it down perfectly by the way, hence why it’s a piece of advice. But but nonetheless, yes, that that is definitely something I wish I’d go back and tell my twenty two year old self.

Leslie Vickrey
Nice. Well, I love that. And it connects to something I’ve been curious about since getting to know more about your journey too. You’ve held a remarkable range of roles. Again, I mentioned earlier CFO, EVP, President, COO, and now CEO. It’s not exactly a straight line. And I think there’s something in the nonlinear path that our listeners, a lot of whom are navigating their own pivots right now, really connect with.

And I’m curious if you could take us back as you’re thinking about your career to a decision, a risk, or a turning point that truly changed your trajectory and one that maybe didn’t feel like the obvious move at the time in your career.

Kellen Smith
Absolutely. So I think back, I started my career at Accenture, as we as you mentioned earlier on, loved it, stayed there about four and a half years, traveled all around the world actually, and knew I didn’t want to be a consultant forever. I did know that, nothing against it. I just, I wanted to operate and I found myself kind of getting plugged into other areas of the business and in that I in that consulting world, sometimes there’s the in scope, out of scope.

And I found that frustrating. And so I knew I wanted to go into an operational role. And ultimately at that time, I made the decision to not take an offer that in hindsight was insane that I did not take it. But it was effectively a Fortune 500 global company and I was offered a global director of strategy role to travel all around the world and focus particularly on Asia and Latin America and South America, both, and relocate to Los Angeles.

And on paper, it was like, how would you not take this role? But something kind of just my gut deep down said I would thrive more in an entrepreneurial environment.

And getting back to the I always was getting involved in other things within the business, and that was actually one of my clients, oddly enough, that Fortune 500 company, but, and I had this other offer that came up via my network for this $50 million entrepreneurial private company. And they needed someone in quote unquote finance and I use that term loosely because at 50 million, there wasn’t a whole lot of finance, but nonetheless they knew as they were growing they needed that. And I don’t have a traditional finance background. and I would have come in with an FPNA and something just in my gut said, You should take that, take that leap.

It was a title cut, a pay cut, all of the above, basically of everything that people say, do not do, you know, job moving 101 and I think a lot of times people will say the moment you kind of take a step back into something that you really want to do, maybe or maybe fits you better, is when you ultimately find a different path. And, you know, it it’s really probably was the beginning of much of my career now. And people ask me, Did you want to be a, know you want to be a CFO or how did you become a CFO?

And honestly, it wasn’t something I woke up and said, I want to be a CFO. It’s it literally was I learned that business inside and out and wore a lot of hats and the opportunity arose and they asked me to step in. And, and so that’s that’s was a big turning point in my career just in many ways.

Leslie Vickrey
That’s incredible.

I think we often, you know, look back on those decisions, but really it was exactly where you were meant to be based on all of the M&A work that you’ve gone on since then to do and growing companies of that size into much larger companies. You have to get that experience and had you kept going large company, large company, large company. You don’t get that same day to day operational experience that comes with those small to mid-sized companies. So it was exactly where you were meant to be, which oftentimes is where you think in your gut, “Am I supposed to do this?” Or everyone else thinks you’re crazy for doing it. But it’s those decisions that make such a big difference.

Lesly Cardec
And it and, I’m just took a lot of guts, I’m sure.

Kellen Smith
It’s interesting. I think now, I think it did. but I think at the time I was a little bit like a lot younger actually. And I was like, well, why not? You know, what’s the worst thing that could happen? Right. Or as someone said, what’s the best thing that could happen is really how we should orient it. But which is true.

I think sometimes we’d all, even as you get later in life and have more responsibility and you get kind of caught being, get kind of caught up in what’s the right move. And I don’t know that there’s necessarily a right move. So I think sometimes if you could kind of go back to that.

I don’t want to say ignorance, but kind of, right? of just put your like find the place that you’re meant to be and go put your head down and it’ll work out would probably serve us all well.

Lesly Cardec
Yeah. I, I can relate to that. I think it would be interesting. How do we hold on to that type of bravery, right? That, that we have where we’re like, if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, right? You just try it and that type of thing. But I love that story. Thank you for sharing.

I guess just it could probably kind of carry on to what you were just saying, but when you reflect on something you believed, right, early in your career, and it could have to do with what you just shared or not, but something that you believe so fiercely that you’ve let go of that, what would that be?

Kellen Smith
I would say early in my career, particularly when you’re moving up through the ranks, I focused a lot on putting my head down and working really hard, learning the business and effectively outworking, I guess you would say in a lot of ways, many peers, but wanting to be the best at what you did and success would inevitably fall follow and you wouldn’t fail. And I think the biggest thing that I have had to let go of is failure by definition is a part of the equation.

It does not matter how hard you work. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, you’re going to get some things wrong. You’re going to step into an environment that’s not perfect for you or isn’t the right one. You’re going to make a a decision or an investment or a move and it’s you’re, you’re, you’re not going to get a hundred percent of them.

And so embracing that and knowing when that’s okay, right, versus when maybe you need to be more measured, is is really important. And I think I just had to let go of the mindset that failure was inherently bad. I, I think I don’t think I’ve talked to a single person, especially as a leader, where they haven’t failed at something, whether it was the role wasn’t even right, right, and they needed to pivot.

Or making a decision internally that was an investment or an acquisition and it inherently was the wrong one. And, and at that point it’s building the team to be agile and recognize it and and pivot. But I think I just had this a naive belief that if you just worked really hard you could you would succeed and nothing would fail and you would control, control things, but you control very little in reality.

Leslie Vickrey
Yeah. And honestly, Kellen, that is the kind of honest reflection that is exactly what the show is about. And I appreciate you, you going there. We have a saying, if you’re not learning, you’re not growing. And by learning, it’s the basically failures or different experiences. We I had one just today, had to step back and take a look at and say, you know what?

We’re, what a learning moment and what a great opportunity to learn and then grow from that, and I think of you and reflecting on your answer, you’re really at an interesting inflection point at 8020. You know, a new-ish now CEO. You’ve been there for a bit, but a fresh senior leadership team kind of all coming together, you’ve got a lot in motion and on your plate. I’m curious to hear as you think about that, that failure piece or learning to grow. Is there a question that you’re wrestling with in your work today and one that maybe doesn’t have a clean or clear answer yet. And I bet you’re leaning into that. It’s okay, I may not make the right decisions or have all of the answers and and that’s okay.

Kellen Smith
There’s many of them. So where where do I start or which one do I pick, I should say? I’ll comment on two, I guess, absolutely, Leslie. I mean, it this is a, in a way a daily reflection almost when you’re at the point we’re at where we are building and growing and driving the business forward and doing some things or contemplating doing some things the company has not done before, much less are not mature markets as they are, such as AI.

So one of the the big components that I’m really leaning into and trying to determine and wrestle with the right approach, the right structure, how do we go to market, the right hires to bring it to life is really around our AI offerings specific to finance and accounting.

We’re finding a lot of success organically and in partnerships, but I know there’s another level to go to, to something to create out of that that doesn’t exist in how many consulting firms or advisory firms are approaching AI and so for me it’s, it’s a multitude of decisions, which is like I said, structure, timing, what do the hires need to look like and how do we really get this off the ground and empower people who are more intelligent than I am in this area to come and build something.

So that’s a big part within the business structurally right now, which is fun, but if I focus too much, you can go revert back to that old belief system of “I have to get it right.” And that’s almost paralyzing. at least I find it is. Right. So that’s a big one.

The other one is as we grow as a company, just in my own roles evolved and what we’ve done to get the business where it is today, where do I need to drive something and lean in versus where do I need to actually get out of the way and empower the team to go do it with the right accountability, of course, but that is something that also I think is evolving daily.

Leslie Vickrey
Yeah. I I live and breathe that every single day. Lesly can attest to that, just trying to really focus on where I can have the greatest impact for our business. And on the AI front, it’s really interesting, Kellen, because when you think of marketing in AI, you know, everyone assumes, makes assumptions that we should be on the forefront of it.

And when you think of innovation and all of the things that go into making these business decisions. There are innately some industries that are not innovative. And you have to look at how are you bringing them along, you know, with you and kind of educating and taking any fear and risk out at the same time of embracing something unique and special. And I think being vulnerable in even those conversations with clients, with consultants, with your own company, with your own team to say it’s it is evolving and it’s moving quickly, but we have to decide where do we want to be? You know, are we on the forefront, are we a wait and see, or are we a laggard? And I would have to imagine, you know, you’re a forefront probably leader and wanting to look at how do you also then bring along people who may not be there? I’m curious how you handle that.

Kellen Smith
It’s interesting. I would say within our team generally, holistically across consultants internally, there’s actually a lot of enthusiasm because in our world, the transformation that it can have as an accounting and finance leader to really do things that were challenging, budget constrained, you didn’t have the manpower to, to then really enable you is is a huge opportunity.

So for our consultants who are professional, highly experienced accounting and finance consultants, they see that too. And so they actually are hungry for it so I have a really exciting opportunity that’s making that easier. I actually feel more pressure in making sure that we make the right moves to bring it to life and to empower them to create things that probably I wouldn’t even know are possible to create because I have a hundred and ten, hundred and fifteen very talented professionals.

So for me, I actually feel more the pressure of getting the right pieces in place and defining it enough that then we can go run with it. Right. When you don’t have that clarity, then people don’t necessarily know how to move forward or what it’s gonna look like and what therefore they’d be a part of so I know it’s a little bit different and maybe didn’t answer question directly, but I would say, you know, we’re not the bleeding edge, but we’re definitely wanna be the leading edge.

Leslie Vickrey
Right. Yeah. No, that’s a, it’s a great answer. And you did answer it because when your team’s excited and they want to see what the potential and the power is, and when they start to see that and get excited about that, that’s exactly where you want them to be. And we have found even as an agency that we’ve had to bring people along on this journey. And as soon as they get the training and see what we’re doing, they are so excited and can’t wait to dive in to learn more.

So to your point, it’s like making sure you pick exactly the right things, but knowing everything changes so fast and people are chasing those shiny objects. It’s like you you wanna make those right decisions and do the right things. It’s it’s changing, you know, every single day. So

Lesly Cardec
These are really good questions that you’re sitting with and and working through and not, not pretending that you have everything f figured out so that I love that. And that’s ex…, you know, very honest and the kind of leadership that people follow and wanna, you know, follow and be a part of. So leading at this level, and I know you had four kids, which is double what I have, and I’m like, my I’m like, oh my gosh, requires more than just a good strategy, a whole system really.

And so I wanna ask you about the architecture of your life, the routines, what your support system looks like, the people that help you, what does that look like in order for you to show up fully and and do what you do every day?

Kellen Smith
So a lot to say the least. I seem to not have this ability to do anything kind of or halfway in my life, right? It’s like why not just go straight for four under four? Like that’ll be fun.

Lesly Cardec
Okay, not that you weren’t superwoman before, but…

Leslie Vickrey
Did you say four under four?!

Kellen Smith
I had four under four. They’re a little bit older now. I say older, they’re still all young. But yes, my oldest is three and a half and my twins were fourteen months and my son was newborn.

Lesly Cardec
Okay. So I’m gonna just have to clap on that.

Kellen Smith
Or say you’re insane. Or both? How about that? yeah. So they’re they’re a little bit older now. They’re seven, five, five, and four. I say a little bit ’cause we’re still in the thick of it. but I first off, I mean, I have the most incredible husband, truly. that is the the rock kind of emotionally organization, everything else. He works as well and and has a career himself, but he just is highly present and invested in myself and the kids and our family, which I know for me is just such a blessing and, and then you know, dream come true for what I could have asked for in a in a significant other and and now spouse. But I’m very fortunate to have him.

So he does not shy away from you know, I would say, fifty percent it’s probably a hundred percent of helping with the kids and activities and food and camps and who needs to be where.

So I have to just emphasize that. I’m so fortunate.

And then we have a lot of extended family nearby as well. So I have a a really firm belief that it takes a village, especially with four of them, but it does take a village. And I think I look at it and my kids are fortunate to be loved by such a village, not just us as parents.

And so my in-laws live down the street, which yes, that’s great. I have the most incredible in-laws I get asked at all the time, Is that good or bad? It’s great, it’s fabulous. They actually came over and helped yesterday for a little while and are very present and engaged. And then my parents and family come in frequently as well, and/or we go see them in Austin and Houston. So that is a big part of it, just knowing I have that support system.

And then we also have a full-time nanny who’s incredible and basically like part of our family now and kind of runs, really runs the day-to-day, if, if we’re also honest, of all the logistics that have to go into running a household with four children. And I’m very fortunate to have her also love our children like she does.

So it’s multifaceted. I wouldn’t say I have it completely figured out, but there is one thing that I have is non negotiable and the older I get, I would say the more critical or important I should say it comes to me and becomes non-negotiable, which is being present for my kids at all their activities and events.

So I am emotionally present, physically present for my kids as many evenings as I can be, all their school activities, and we have something called family drop off now because dinners were hard with all the activities already starting with the kids and my travels. So we actually drop the kids off together as a family every day in school. So they love for it, love it and ask every day to be a family drop off today. So that’s kind of become one of our little things in in the midst of our what is normally a chaotic week, week with activities.

Leslie Vickrey
Yeah. I love the family, the family drop off those special moments. My husband and I do drop off and pick up together almost every day as much as we can for Grayson. And we have one, not four, but it was interesting because other families started noticing that and saying, Wow, why do you two both come? Can’t you? And you know what, it would cut into other things. Like it could cut out into my which one of my non negotiables is getting exercise every day if I can and I try to. And it cuts into that.

And certainly I could say, you know what, you drop off, I’ll pick up. That gives me more time. But we don’t. We still love to do it together. There’s something really special about that quality time. And I I think about your advice to yourself and when someone had said this to me once before too, you know, picking your spouse or your significant other or your partner is one of the most important decisions you can make.

And a lot of people don’t talk about what would it look like as a family or how what do you see yourself doing or not doing and looking at their family to see what were they set up like and how did they make it work and did they make it work. And, you know, what can you learn, you know, from that. But probably the most important things is having that support system, but having a significant other, which again, you know, my mom, single mom, raising two girls, but you surround yourself the best way you can with the most important piece, which is that that support system. But I love the family, the family drop.

Lesly Cardec
You both can look forward I have one that’s just finished fresh when you’re in high school. So you can look forward to when you pick him up for her. You can roll down your windows and put the music that you listened to when you were twenty two on blast. So then you can thoroughly embarrass him and then he would ask please don’t pick me up anymore. So enjoy it.

Kellen Smith
I love it. We’ll turn on the, we’ll turn on the songs they have us put on now to sing on the way to school when they’re in ninth grade.

Lesly Cardec
Exactly. Exactly. I love it.

Leslie Vickrey
Well, thank you for sharing that because I think so many leaders feel like they should have it all figured out by now. And when you’re what you are describing as something I think much more honest and sustainable, we don’t always have it a hundred percent figured out, but we all do the best that we can and give ourselves grace. And Kellan, you operate at the intersection of finance, consulting, and talent, industries that are all reshaped and being reshaped right now. And you’re sitting in a seat where you get to influence not just your firm, but the clients you serve and the consultants you deploy, we already talked about AI being one of those pieces. But if you could shift one conversation or narrative happening in your industry right now, what would it be?

Kellen Smith
Honestly, it probably would be around AI. And I don’t say that because it’s the cliche thing that everyone talks about, it’s just that I hear this a lot in in the industry. And it’s kind of I hear one of two things. One I hear that it’s gonna replace all of finance and accounting and no one’s gonna have jobs. which I think is absolutely not the truth. Do I think that it’s a tool and it drastically evolves and and enables our function? Yes. And that’s what excites me about it, and where we are positioned and where we play within the market.

I also hear on the flip side of that is or the the other kind of component I hear a lot of is the, you know, this needs to be a multi-year massive transformation, right? And if you’re a middle market firm, the ability for you to get traction and deliver a meaningful impact from AI with ROI on the fly like on the go, piece by piece, is very attainable.

It’s just you have to know how to how to leverage it and have the right partner to do so. So those are kind of the two pieces I hear. You know, it’s like, well, how are you gonna even exist? Or hey, this is a massive multi-year project. And it’s not to say that AI is not a large transformation, but that’s also doesn’t mean you can’t do anything along the way.

And so having the right partner to think through how you leverage it piece by piece to operationalize within your organization is very attainable and attainable from a cost standpoint as well. So those are probably the two pieces I spend a lot of time having conversations with either clients and or just market in general. And again, I think is also why we’re so uniquely positioned.

Lesly Cardec
Yeah, I I love that. It’s because it can be, it can seem very overwhelming, right? Like how do you how can you move this big rock? But I love how you how you laid that out to make it, you know, a little bit more obtainable.

So I wanna just close out, I know that we’re at the end of this and unfortunately, I wish we could stay on a lot longer. where can listeners find you or follow along with what you’re doing, 8020, all the things?

Kellen Smith
Yeah. So I am fairly engaged and active on LinkedIn. So you can find me at Kellen Smith. I think it’s kellenssmith is the ending of the LinkedIn URL and would love to engage there. And then for 8020 Consulting, we also have a LinkedIn page, 8020 Consulting or 8020consulting.com, both of which we’re pretty active on, also have thought leadership as well as just general updates on the company and how we’re continuing to progress.

Lesly Cardec
Amazing.

Leslie Vickrey
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for that, Kellen, as we wrap up, I think what strikes me most about your story is that every role you’ve taken, again, from CFO, president, COO, and now CEO has been, it feels like at least getting to know you and knowing the way your company culture is and so forth and how you operate. You’re very humble. It’s been less about the title and more about the challenge.

And obviously when you made that decision to take the one role over another and thinking through that, it was definitely about the the challenge and that opportunity. And you’ve never been afraid to walk into complexity and really figure, figure that out. And you’ve reminded us that great leadership isn’t about having all of the answers. It’s about asking really the right questions, building the right systems and being honest enough to say, I’m still learning.

And that is obviously the genesis of our podcast. And we really appreciate you joining us for that conversation. Listen, we’re rooting for you, Kellen, is a leader. We love watching you online, getting to know you and hearing more about your story. And obviously we’re rooting for 8020 and continued success of the wonderful company you’re building.

Kellen Smith
Thank you, Leslie. I appreciate it and appreciate the opportunity to join and have this conversation and learn more about you guys as well and excited to also watch all you guys continue to do.

Leslie Vickrey
Thank you.

Lesly Cardec
Thank you. Thanks for coming.

Kellen Smith
Thanks guys.

Leslie Vickrey
All right, Lesly. Well, that’s a wrap. And now it’s time for our take three. What a great conversation with Kellen. How you feeling coming out of it?

Lesly Cardec
Great. I did it honestly, I, to be transp, I didn’t know much about her besides, you know, the bio, which was so impressive. But I learned a lot. There was a lot of good, a lot of good nuggets in here. So I know the the audience listeners will really enjoy it.

Leslie Vickrey
Yes. Well, I learned something about lighting. So I don’t know what this final product will turn out like, but my lighting situation was terrible on this podcast. Apologies in advance.

Okay, back to business here. One of the things for takeaway number one that I loved listening to was about failure.

And during Jennie Dede’s podcast, we actually talked about this too, where sometimes you have to unlearn certain behavior, different things. And this seems to be a common thread that we’re hearing, which is basically while she was growing through the ranks, she learned that failure, it’s actually part of the equation and should be part of the equation because it is going to happen. Nothing is perfect. So she had to let go of that feeling of failure being inherently bad.

And her thought process was, if you work really hard, you will succeed and you can control things. And you really you can’t. There’s so much that’s really out of your control. And in some cases, you’re going to make wrong decisions. And the best way to learn is to learn through failure sometimes, because it’s really a period of growth. So I appreciated that coming from her, just being really humble and open and honest about her failures that she’s experienced. It takes a lot for a leader. It’s one thing to say, we have a culture where we believe in this, but it’s another thing to actually share what those are, which again, I think just gives your team permission to feel that way.

Lesly Cardec
That’s exactly what I was thinking of like how how great to have a leader who is just transparent that even they fall and it’s okay giving other people permission to to do the same. So I thought that was that was really powerful. That stood out to me as well.

The other thing for me was when she told a story early on in the episode about early on in her career, there was an offer, she had an offer in front of her that she didn’t take.

And by all just, you know, definitions of a strong offer, everything was there. The comp, the Fortune 500, big, probably big logo. It was a global director of strategy role or something of the like. And most people would probably take it if you saw it laid out on paper, but she, she knew that she thrived more in an entrepreneurial type of environment. So she didn’t take it.

And what she was really looking for was something not of that size, but something also that would kind of it’s more of like a learning experience on the finance side, something that she didn’t traditionally have and so it was a cut in multiple ways, title, pay, but it really hit home on just being self aware and knowing what you’re good at and what, you know, gets you going.

And she knew, she said, she’s like, I was, you know, I was knew I was wired for entrepreneurial type of roles. And that wasn’t it. So it’s just a good reminder to all of us that career paths are not necessarily linear and that just know yourself.

And sometimes the right move isn’t the one that is big, flashy, kind of, you know, moving up the ladder. Maybe it looks kind of going sideways for a little bit, but you’ll eventually get to where you need to be.

Leslie Vickrey
Right. Yeah, I agree. She, I thought it was fascinating because we’re pushed into those positions because like your parents may tell you, What are you thinking? Why would you not take that? Your friends, other people around you see on paper or hear something that sounds incredible. And you know, I give her a lot of credit for not going in the direction that seemed obvious.

And quite frankly, getting that CFO experience and title was huge for her going on the private equity side and doing so many, you know, M&A transactions, having that background and that experience, that that is clutch to her getting, I think, even that CEO title and position. Kudos, Kellen. We love that about you.

The third take would be to me when she said four kids under age of four and the importance of a support system..,it was so funny. You stopped the conversation. Like, wait a minute, did you say four kids under four?

Lesly Cardec
Like, wow!

speaker-0 (41:07.53)
I know, I know. And it’s, it’s tricky, right? Because she obviously has an incredible career and is very driven. You don’t become a D1 soccer player without being extraordinarily competitive and driven. And to be in that situation where, you know, the opportunity to be a mom of four kids and have them all, you know, that closely together while rising up the ranks, support system is everything.

And again, I remember thinking back to a conversation with Ursula Williams about this, where, you know, finding, picking and choosing your spouse in that moment and your significant other and understanding, you know, what role will they play in raising the family and having those conversations, how important it is to find not only your person, but your people.

And if that’s, you know, like, we live in Breckenridge, we have no family here, but we do have, thank goodness, we’ve built an incredible support system for our family, for our home, for our dogs, obviously, for Grayson, for all of us who we can lean on and into when we need it. And I know a lot of people who don’t have that.

But one of the things that struck me quite heavily when talking to Kellen today is just the importance of surrounding yourself and building out that support system.

And again, it doesn’t have to be family. It can be a combination and probably is a combination of things. She talked about having a nanny. And, you know, if I, if we didn’t have our nanny start the week Grayson was born, I don’t know what I would have done. Like she saved me the first three years of his, of his life. But we were in a very fortunate position to have that. And not everyone does.

So I think it’s really looking at, what does your system look like? You know, you’ve got divorced parents and families, you have, you know, just the trials and tribulations of you could live in a community where you don’t know anyone, whatever that is. Finding that support system is critical to you becoming a, a CEO, I think, of a company like Kellen is. This, it it played a significant role for her. And I’ve seen it play a a big role for me and others too.

Lesly Cardec
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there’s all kinds of dynamics, right? We speak to a lot of executives and or in our peer group. I mean, it all looks so different. So there’s not a cookie, cookie cutter approach. And it’s refreshing to hear people that say, I’m not doing it on my own. I have a support system around me that if it wasn’t for them, this could not work. So I think that’s an important message to to share because, you know, it, it was a lot of the times you have this vision of, you know, on a pedestal and you just can like, you know, the balance word, which I’m like, I’m glad I’m kinda not hearing that as much anymore and I’m happy about it ’cause I just I don’t think it exists.

There’s just, you know, ebbs and flows and and whatnot. So it was nice and refreshing. I I that definitely stood out to me. Yeah. Yeah.

The new picture is just everything falling and trying to trying to you know catch everything, right? But yeah, no, it was great. I love the conversation. I, I say this every time, but I mean it I think we could stay on longer. And I thought she had a lot of good nuggets. There’s much more than three that that stood out. So can’t wait for everyone to give us their feedback and share their insights. And this was a good one.

Leslie Vickrey
Honestly, let’s keep, keep learning. Let’s keep doing it.

Lesly Cardec
Alright, I’ll catch you next time.

---

Outro: Thanks for listening to Honestly, We’re Learning. If you liked what you heard, you can drop us a like, review, or comment. And if you want to hear more, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.